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Post by unrepentant on Oct 5, 2003 19:25:31 GMT
when i hear about vocal imitators i think:
"With voices out of nowhere put on especially by the children for a lark Cry baby cry..."
all of CRY BABY CRY is rich with imagery.
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Post by JamesPaul & Brian on Oct 5, 2003 20:41:01 GMT
Victor, are you getting more cryptic than Apollo C. Vermouth?
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Post by Otacon on Jan 26, 2004 23:33:06 GMT
There is something that I wanted to comment on...
The topic creator stated that Faul did not sing "Oh Darling". I'd have to disagree.
Keep in mind that this happened a while ago:
One day, my father and his band were playing somewhere (I can't remember where, but I don't think it was just a club). He did "Oh Darling". John Sinclair came up to the leader of the band my dad was in at the time and commented on how well he sang it..."I was there when McCartney recorded it and that guy sounded just like him if not better!" or something like that (minus the swearing, lol)
Anyway...if John Lennon brought in Sinclair to one of there recording sessions, I doubt that they'd have Aspinall doing one of the songs (with him there).
I'm listening to "A Day In The Life" (the right side) and the voice does sound tired...and sped up (on Paul's part). Also, I believe someone mentioned that it sounds like it was only part of a song. Well, (if my memory serves me correctly) in Anthology, they mention how it was originally another song that Paul was writing, but then they decided to combine it with John's song.
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Post by Fwings on Feb 7, 2004 7:52:22 GMT
You know, I think this thread is one of the most important and informational threads on this entire forum. It should be pinned to the top of the forum for all newcomers to read. When you really start examing the voices in the songs, there being "three" McCartneys is almost undeniable. Think about this... we all know a John song when we hear it. We all know Ringo. We all know George. Why is it that "Paul" sounds so different in songs from Sgt. Pepper onward? Honestly, when I first got into The Beatles, I would sometimes identify McCartney vocals by knowing that it wasn't the voice of one of the other three.
Let us not forget the work of Dr. Henry Truby, the man who detected three different McCartney voices in The Beatles' catalogue.
We had experts on. We had a man a doctor [sic] Henry Truby from the University of Miami who specialized in voiceprints. He was the man who used to record baby's cries at birth and twenty years later be able to pick out the individual babies just by their voiceprints. And Dr. Truby told me on tape on television [sic], Rick Shaw and I made a little documentary on it and Truby appeared and said, 'It's defiinitely not the same person. All my research shows it can't be the same person.' Then we called Dr. Truby to come back and do retakes. He shut up. He clammed up and said, 'No. I can't say anything more about this.'
-Robey Younge from his Beatle Brunch interview.
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Post by Perplexed on Feb 7, 2004 9:15:20 GMT
Just my redundant 2 cents.
I still think Paul sang She's Leaving, When I'm 64, Lovely Rita Rita, and I't Getting Better.
When I play "When Im 64" slightly slower on a tape deck, James Paul's characteristic phrasing and sliding, and "attack" become plain to my ear. The timbre matches the timbre on "She;s Leaving" perfectly at slightly more than a half step lower. It seems to be in Db on the album; pitch it to "C" or halfway between "B" and "C" and one can here it.
It's Getting Better is mixed in a way that it seems to mostly have James Paul. But, to me, the bridges sound double tracked with Bill (the high G's on the end of the bridge sound like Bill + Paul mixed to me.) I could be wrong.
Fixing a Hole ----sounds like a VERY good imitator to me. The smoothness of tone is not like Paul or Bil. (JMO) "I'm fixing hole where the rain has been, too stop my MIND" the word "mind" is alien to my concept of Paul. The vowel on "mind" seems out of place for Paul. JMO Overall, the vocal is not as "woody" or "dusty", or "dark" as I hear Paul having been. The vocal here is well focused (like trained) and bright in timbre.
Lovely Rita, again, I slowed it down, and I hear , I think, mostly Paul on lead. It seems to be in the key of Eb on the CD, pitching it down to D or almost to Db, I har what I charactoristically think of as Paul. I know they played with the tape speed on many of Sgt. Pepper's song; that is eveident as I said before somewhere on the piano gliss in C mafor at the end of the solo. You can't gliss an Eb scale on the white keys (obvious to a pianist who glisses a lot!!!) w/out detuning the piano down a minor third. Catastrophic!
Hey Jude and Let It Be and Oh Darlin' are totally Bill's.
I think you would have to search the world to find anyone to really mimic Ringo THAT well. JMO, A Little Help from My Friends can only be Ringo singing.
THe exposition verse on Sgt. Pepper (It was 20 years ago today.etc) I think, after all is said and done, is Bill. "The singer's gonna sing his song, and HE WANTS YOU ALL TO SING ALONG."
And we have. Gladly.
MMT is Bill on the verse two choruses, with John doing the third verse. Why? Who does the "step right up" business at the top? Is that Mal Evans? That tall man? He looks like a bouncer. Is he in MMT movie as ticket dude? Is he on "Yellow Submarine" in the voice-over submarine commander spoof tward the end?
Bill sings Lady Madonna on "...Broad Street" and sounds on pretty much just like the record (accounting for passing years), so I think, when he presses his cords heavily that way, he gets that Lady Madonna, "Got no money to pay the rent" voice.
Regarding "A Day in the Life", I still feel that the"Woke up, got outta bed"bridge is a flown in bit from a Paul demo. The use of this segment is brilliant, genius. I think they flew in HIS bass part and vocal. I think the bass part of Paul's continues through the Lennon "AAH" over dub that follows, the bass track ends and is smoothly taken over by a later recorded bass player in the measure beginning where Lennon sings, "I read the news today, oh, boy, 2000 holes in Blackland Lancashire."
Lennons part of the song is in G major. Paul's is in E major. THe phrase "I'd like to turn you on.", accompanied by B, C, D, E as eighth notes in the bass lleads us easily to Paul's key. The clock indicates where Paul's track starts---the orchestral quasi-chromatic rise ad lib sweeps up to land on an E, and of course the same happens at the end just before the final monster E major chord on the 3 or 4 pianos. They HAD to know they were going to use that bridge all along. I make medleys all the time. There is a craft to it. You have to know where you are going to land harmonically in a modulation or transition. Especially if you spend 6000 Lbs. recording an orchestra on top of your unfinished tracks. Lennon and Martin knew all along about the key relationships oin that very special song. They had to to avoid throwing a LOT of money away.
Music directors of shows, arrangers of all kinds of ensemble music, studio guys ALL know what this about. In a complicated song, you don't record without having it mapped out in your mind. Otherwise, you waste money, your time, and the studio players time. And the record companies.
The inside piece, IMO, was probably done FIRST, the Lennon outside parts were written to FIT the already completed (and perhaps recorded) parts.
And, the vocalist on "Fool on the Hill", IMO, is also on "Hello, Goodbye." Both of these songs are difficult to analyze. I don;t know what to make of some parts of Hello Goodbye. I sense of blend of some kind. Can't "suss" it out. Maxwell's Silver Hammer is, IMO, Bill.
What I have gotten use to, from so much listening, is early Paul's voice was balanced with a lot of rich mid-range color, and a heavier, darker resonance than I had come to expect.
Also, from listening to "I've Seen a Face" I get a strong impression of Paul having cultivated avocal style reminiscent, ALMOST, of "roots" type music. Almost the languid plaintive sound of a American bluegrass or country balladeer. Not the accent, no, but some of the inflections and styling elements. And totally, totally anglo-saxon in delivery. No impression do I have of early Paul ever phrasing in a North American gospel-ish, or black "soul" kind of style. Paul's early manner of speaking and song delivery would have sound stilted for him to try sing in those way. His Little Richard sound not withstanding, those early songs that he was "doing" Little Richard are a plausible exception. Even then, the kind of "take it to church" approach in "let It Be." would have required a lot of stretching from early Paul to later Paul.
Just my impressions, opinions.
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Post by Fwings on Feb 8, 2004 1:03:55 GMT
Here's some opinions formed by me by listening to the Anthology 2 collection. While the Anthology was nothing more but a forgery of Beatles history, it seems like they only went after the obvious stuff that people would notice or look for (James Paul's head in photographs, and altering famous clues like "I buried Paul" to sound like "Cranberry Sauce" ), and there's still some good stuff to be found there.
In the version of the Sgt. Pepper Reprise that found it's way on the Sgt. Pepper album (take 9 with overdubs), the only remnant of Faul is the "One, two, three, four!" at the beginning, and the rest is Neil. However, I think they had originally intended for Faul to sing it. In Take 5, which is included on this Anthology, I don't hear Neil, but Faul, and he does a TERRIBLE job. Obviously Bill hadn't perfected his voice yet, and couldn't yet get any range with the Liverpool accent. Here he sounds nothing like Paul, and you almost feel sorry for him, because he's trying so hard. It's no wonder they just stuck Neil with it for the final version.
The earlier version of "Your Mother Should Know" is quite clearly James Paul, no question about it. Listen at the beginning of the song where he mocks George Martin. " Do you want us to do it again, George? Right. With ciggy in mouth." It's James Paul's speaking voice, it's his singing voice, and this was always a Paul song. George Martin just combined several takes, and violia.
In the demo for "Fool on the Hill," I'm not sure who I'm hearing. It could be Faul, as it bears a slight resemblance to his speaking voice as Paul during the "LSD interview," but it might be Neil Aspinall. However, two tracks later, and Fool on the Hill Take 4 is featured, and I hear George Harrison, plain as day (more clear than the final version, actually). As a reference, I jumped back to "Only a Northern Song," and sure enough, it was the same voice, perhaps slowed down ever so slightly.
Again, the Anthology is not a good source of analyzing, but the point is, even in "Faul's Fakery Bible," there remains the distinctly different voices of James Paul, Neil Aspinall, Bill Sheppard, and George Harrison.
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Post by xray on Feb 8, 2004 11:00:53 GMT
Having read this forum, I am probably now 96% certain that if James Paul is not dead, he was still replaced by a look-alike who had undergone extensive plastic surgery to resemble him. Why? This is a conundrum wrapped in an enigma! Why would anyone want to play with our minds like that? And engage us in a vicious circle of speculation?
When Curley left the Three Stooges through ill-health and later death; there was no " Curley is Dead" bullsh*t. No Cid web-sites. No photos or forensic evidence to prove that Joe De Rita wasn't Curley and notions that there was an FBI/CIA/ILLUMINATI plots being hatched behind the Three Stooges or even a link with the Kennedy Assassination.No one associated with Larry, Moe and Curley tried to pretend that the later "Curly", Joe De Rita, was the earlier "Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk", Curly; we all came to know and love.
Now, I'm sorry Beatle fans but before knowing about the existence of this web-site; I didn't give a rat's arse about Paul or Faul or Frian or Brian or any other members of this star-studded cast mentioned in these web-pages.
There are many other forensic tests to prove conclusively that the allegedly deceased James Paul McCartney has been the victim of the most blatant case of 'Identity Theft' the world has ever seen. It is also false advertising because you Beatle fans purchased albums after Sept. '66 thinking you got Paul McCartney and you got someone else! You made a contract with the Record Company when you handed over your cash for the album and you were presented with a receipt and you were deceived and every young legal eagle knows, "Fraud vitiates Contract". Perhaps a Class Action case could be directed at the parties responsible for this tort or felony or whatever it is.The Record Companies would be in a position that they'd have to prove that they delivered the 'real' Paul McCartney and did not use any form of deception in their 'contract' with you. This could even lead to graves being 'exhumed'.
This list of forensic tests is very long, DNA profiliing, fiingerprinting, (Surely young McCartney may have gotten into trouble in his early days that may be buried in Liverpool police archives. I don't want to cast aspersions or malign Paul but the Early Beatles were known as "tasty geysers in a fight") Dental ID, Ear ID, Facial Reconstruction ( which has been well covered on this site) Voice Analysers and Voiceprints (again covered).
The 'Conspiracy Theories' outlined on this web-site can only be speculation until bona fide documented or testimonial proof is presented. Otherwise you can read through these posts all day and not get anywhere.60IF can just become another time-consuming hobby.
You can speculate until the cows come home but now it's time to walk the walk; not just talk the talk.
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Post by SunKing on Feb 8, 2004 13:46:06 GMT
This list of forensic tests is very long, DNA profiliing, fiingerprinting, (Surely young McCartney may have gotten into trouble in his early days that may be buried in Liverpool police archives. I don't want to cast aspersions or malign Paul but the Early Beatles were known as "tasty geysers in a fight") Dental ID, Ear ID, Facial Reconstruction ( which has been well covered on this site) Voice Analysers and Voiceprints (again covered). We have nothing only about DNA test. For ALL the rest please have the patience to read ALL the posts (and links!) in this forum....
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Post by xray on Feb 9, 2004 11:52:46 GMT
Thanks 'googoo' for your support.;D Perhaps I did sound a little 'nuts' in my first post. I blame it not on Rio but on being saturated with all the links, documentation , and posts on this, for me, comparatively 'new' topic and web-site. I should have 'digested' the information better before 'mouthing off'. I haven't got a clue what personality clashes occur on this web-site and I don't want to buy into it really. This doesn't mean that I'm retracting what I said or don't mean what I've said. This web-site has, if nothing else, brought up serious issues that will have to be resolved. I have nothing whatsoever, against the person known to this web-site as "Faul". He appears to be a top bloke, an excellent family man. He was more than good to Linda. Very understanding to Heather. He's raised good children. In his own right he is a crowd-pleaser and great entertainer. No one can take this away from him. He does not have to live under the shadow of anyone. What does mystify me other than the convincing photographic evidence offered in this site is this; John Lennon, after "Let it Be" came out with albums which in my humble opinion were better than the previous ones. He had a short hiatus from creative activity and then, came out with an absolutely brilliant album which was released about the time he was shot. In short, Lennon went from the Hamburg phase to "Please, please" and "She loves You to the songs in "Shaved Fish" i.e. "Mind Games" to the pinnacle in lyrics and orchestration, "Woman" and " Beautiful Boy". Then he was assassinated. You could plot the evolution of his genius on a graph! ( I know this strange for a 'non- Beatle' fan to go on about.) Now McCartney, in my opinion, from the first Beatles album to "Beatles for Sale" , "Hard Day's Night", "Revolver" and the alleged post-McCartney death songs from "Pepper", "White Album", "Abbey Road" and finally, "Let it Be" reveals that James Paul McCartney , as a lyricist and tunesmith was John Lennon's equal, in every way, if not better! They were both poets in the full context and sense of the word. They used metaphor and imagery than stunned the world, either individually or as a team. They were Poets and they tapped into the collective unconscious. In the later albums; they became serious intellectuals. One may not like the Beatles but for a few exceptions they did not dish out 'trite' and many were enthralled and hypnotised by their lyrics, alone. Now my point; - why didn't that same stunning poetry find itself in the lyrics of 'Wings' songs.Some may differ, but I fail to see it. Why didn't McCartney get better and better? If you plotted John Lennon's or George Harrison's song-writing Genius on a graph; the line would go up exponentially. If you plotted McCartney's graph; the line would go up to a mighty height and then crash down. Why do even some people wish that McCartney would retire and stop writing music? (this doesn't include 'die-hard' Wings fans) No one expressed these opinions when he came out with "Yesterday" and went from strength to strength after that. Some may agree or disagree with the opinions expressed here. My great beef and the reason I follow this web-site is Deception and Mind Manipulation of the masses. It is disgusting! It is degrading! And no government or corporation has the right to practise it or use it on its citizens or clients. The Establishment is like Hannibal Lecter in "Silence of the Lambs". I don't want him in my head!
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Post by ReallyReallyDead on Aug 4, 2005 13:40:31 GMT
Let It Be: PAUL -- none NEIL ASPINALL -- none FAUL -- all songs In my opinion, "Let it Be" (the song) is Neil (or whoever the immitator is); just compare it to Faul's "Hey John Jude" ( ) and its obvious that the're not the same guy, Faul has a more "airy" voice (as in, more air leakige), sorry for lack of a better word.
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Post by TPIMaster on Aug 4, 2005 18:05:30 GMT
I'd say everything (except maybe some Pepper stuff) is Bill.
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Post by peoplescommittee on Aug 7, 2005 18:58:00 GMT
From what I hear, parts of the list were prepared from an earlier page run by Sun King. Perhaps someone should find him and ask. Shouldn't be too hard...
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Post by TPIMaster on Aug 7, 2005 19:03:23 GMT
In my opinion, "Let it Be" (the song) is Neil (or whoever the immitator is); just compare it to Faul's "Hey John Jude" ( ) and its obvious that the're not the same guy, Faul has a more "airy" voice (as in, more air leakige), sorry for lack of a better word. Sorry, it's definately Bill, they were following The Beatles along with camera's during the Get Back Session for the Let It Be movie. And tons of versions of Let It Be were recorded on film with Bill singing it. And Bill lip syncing earlier recordings by "Neil" or Denny Laine is surely absurd.
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TheDZ
Provocative Operator
Posts: 435
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Post by TheDZ on Aug 8, 2005 7:41:54 GMT
This fellow did not sing any 'Paul' songs on Pepper. This fellow, Brian Hines AKA Denny Laine, did.. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and Fixing a Hole (Stating his role). He introduced us to Billy Shears.. Billy Shears sang A Little Help From My Friends, it's stated quite clearly. Ringo, the credited singer of ALHFMF. Logically, one might conclude Ringo is Billy Shears. But, did Ringo really sing that song? Is this really Paul McCartney? A bell in front of a ball in front of ....Why it's Billy, and it's his voice, aided by tape speed manipulation, imitating Ringo. It's better than Ringo was really capable of in terms of pitch control and range. Ringo was more of a talker when he sang and therefore easier to mimic. Bill had the real article right there to help him. Now, who sang lead on Getting Better, She's Leaving Home, When I'm Sixty-Four, Lovely Rita and the middle of A Day in the Life ? There he is, Mr. James Paul McCartney. D'oh, not the dummy.. She's Leaving Home, When I'm Sixty-Four and Lovely Rita were all pitch altered during mastering, SLS going approx 5% lower and WI64 and LR going approx 5% higher. There, the definitive list for Pepper with high res pics and everything. Here's some interesting Ringo lyrics.. Back off BoogalooI'm the GreatestI'm the Greatest ( Version Two )
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Post by BeatlePaul on Aug 8, 2005 10:37:36 GMT
This fellow did not sing any 'Paul' songs on Pepper. This fellow, Brian Hines AKA Denny Laine, did.. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and Fixing a Hole (Stating his role). He introduced us to Billy Shears.. Billy Shears sang A Little Help From My Friends, it's stated quite clearly. Ringo, the credited singer of ALHFMF. Logically, one might conclude Ringo is Billy Shears. But, did Ringo really sing that song? Is this really Paul McCartney? A bell in front of a ball in front of ....Why it's Billy, and it's his voice, aided by tape speed manipulation, imitating Ringo. It's better than Ringo was really capable of in terms of pitch control and range. Ringo was more of a talker when he sang and therefore easier to mimic. Bill had the real article right there to help him. Now, who sang lead on Getting Better, She's Leaving Home, When I'm Sixty-Four, Lovely Rita and the middle of A Day in the Life ? There he is, Mr. James Paul McCartney. D'oh, not the dummy.. She's Leaving Home, When I'm Sixty-Four and Lovely Rita were all pitch altered during mastering, SLS going approx 5% lower and WI64 and LR going approx 5% higher. There, the definitive list for Pepper with high res pics and everything. Here's some interesting Ringo lyrics.. Back off BoogalooI'm the GreatestI'm the Greatest ( Version Two )That's the work we need now. A sum-up of ALL we have found. Please open a brand new thread for that..... and THANK YOU!
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Post by gracemer on Aug 9, 2005 6:00:20 GMT
Great post!!
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TheDZ
Provocative Operator
Posts: 435
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Post by TheDZ on Aug 11, 2005 1:50:16 GMT
Thanks BP, Gracemer,
I'll repost that one in the general section.
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Post by andrewexelor on Sept 29, 2005 19:47:29 GMT
1967PAUL -- "Getting Better," "She's Leaving Home," central insert of "A Day in the Life" nope; you can here faul screw up, and at the end of the insert he says "oh sh*t" on anthology. revival, too
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TheDZ
Provocative Operator
Posts: 435
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Post by TheDZ on Sept 29, 2005 21:08:01 GMT
I think you are right that Faul sang on the insert on Anthology, his voice is almost totally obscured by echo but JPM did the released version on Pepper, absolutely.
Faul did not do ANY Paul songs on Pepper. Hello Goodbye is his first "Paul" song, mimed in the video in the Pepper suit.
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Post by andrewexelor on Sept 29, 2005 21:27:01 GMT
im not sure if thats paul or bill in the anthology 2 your mother should know anyone know?
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Post by plastic paul on Sept 29, 2005 23:28:14 GMT
YMSK sounds more like paul, yet i'm not gonna back that.
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Post by andrewexelor on Oct 3, 2005 1:32:26 GMT
ehm, i was just listening to the fool on the hill take four.....that one is faul atleast....
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Post by plastic paul on Oct 3, 2005 2:02:26 GMT
EMI office in Manchester Square, London
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TheDZ
Provocative Operator
Posts: 435
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Post by TheDZ on Oct 3, 2005 7:30:52 GMT
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Post by plastic paul on Oct 3, 2005 15:28:58 GMT
Yes DZ of course, just seeing if anyone would noticed if i made an error ;D
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