Possible 60IF fraud

[Zappaisbest]

Alright, I stumbled across this whole entire "Paul is dead" conspiracy through a link from a Zappa based website. I must say that I hadn't paid much attention to the Beatles before hand, nor did I like them much. Their simple chords and 4/4 based songs just didn't do it for me. Plus they stuck with the nasty American sound after they came here. Then I read up on all the opinions and so-called "facts" listed in all the websites available. I downloaded numerous videos to compare younger and older Paul, his playing styles, and if he was even playing the right notes. I was very surprised at the Sgt. Pepper's picture of Paul, because that obviously doesn't look like him at all. I downloaded the video "Magical Mystery Tour" and I found that during "I am the Walrus", Paul is holding the bass more towards the ground (which in all the earlier videos before 1966, he holds his bass rather firm and close to him) , and is plucking the strings with little or no effort. It basically looked like he was a person that had never picked up a bass before, and had just been shown what notes to play. One thing that caught my attention was this document that George was suppose to have written. This sentence bugged me. "At the time John was in Paris and George was in India." If this document was suppose to have been written by George, then why would George talk about himself in 3rd person? And if it's not written by George, then who is it written by? Ringo, Paul, and John are all mentioned too, so they would be speaking in third person also. Another thing is all the blatent clues. From what I have gather so far, I'd say it IS possible that Paul was replaced, but maybe not for the reasons you think. I think perhaps this was an inside joke that the band had going, and maybe even see how many people they could fool by puttin a completely different Paul in the line up, and in the album covers. Who knows. If I was famous, I'd do the same thing. f*ck with you. That's all I have to say. I'm curious to hear what you all are thinking. Let her rip. *modified certain typos*

[gharryson]

I agree.....Paul/faul do look different...but all these conspiracies without any substance, is what throws me....i don't believe it was written by george....but there is a post actually stating a name of a fellow from a radio station about paul/jane/linda and paul being replaced impressed me because it had a name to it other than a 'secret source'....if the beatles hadon thing it was a sense of humour....john especially...but more info is going to have to come out...i think dna would do the trick...COME ON ANY ORIGINAL BEATLE FANS HAVE A LOCK OF HAIR, TONAIL, SEMEN SAMPLE SOMETHING?? then all you would need is a sample of the current paul faul mccartney....easy enough from a drinking glass...and voila!!!theres our answer....

[Uberkinder]

It is not possible that this was an inside joke and Paul is still alive because the current "Paul's" face is a perfect match for the false Paul on Sgt. Pepper. The pre-67 Paul has not been seen for over 37 years.

So this definately was not a joke, unless of course the joke involved killing Paul!

[Renee]

I'm sorry. Perhaps no one told you this, but the vast majority on this forum do not allow freedom of speech. I think they will forgive you this once but probably not next time. You see, whenever I try in vain to point things like this out, I am shot down and told my opinions are nothing more than petty provocation.

[Uberkinder]

That's because all you EVER give are opinions. You never present any logical argument as to why the evidence is flawed. From a purely analytical standpoint, the evidence is forensically conclusive. No logical person can deny this, so if you don't believe you should be presenting LOGICAL problems with the evidence. All you ever do is insist we're wrong without explaining WHY.

[Renee]

You can't have facts without heart and conviction. That is just as faulty.



As I keep saying, it is all of you who are in the minority, not me. This being said, it is only right for all of you to work toward supporting these claims. So far, all I see is a few scattered web sites refuting the already known truth of Paul's liveliness, and only providing a few mildly humorous bits of evidence. I'm not seeing any of this in established and trustworthy news sources, or on a wide scale basis.

Those are the REAL cold hard "facts".

[Uberkinder]

Okay, again, what is wrong with the photographic evidence? It is conclusive as is, so what is the flaw in our logic?

[PaulBearer]

The story on the main 60IF page is a condensed translation. More facts have been uncovered over the past several months as the original documents continue to be examined by Sun King and more is discovered. So as regards to the "George was in India..." bit, I can tell you that sentence was added later after on - the original story, which I personally helped to put into better English from the pigeon-english it had been translated into originally by Sun King who is Italian, did not contain that sentence. A bit confusing I know but at first the main authorship was being hidden for reasons of which you'd have to ask Sun King but if the story said "I was in India...", well, it would've been pretty obvious wouldn't it!

Indiciations to me that this doucment is not a fraud to me is just the gaps and mysteries about the Beatles that this clears up. Something smacks of truth about it all with me. If someone decided to make up such a story then:

1. Why bring Brian into it as well? And how is it that the story matches with Brian in 1967 looking quite different (similar problems with skull to Paul/Faul)?

2. Who would be brilliant enough to suddenly give sense to so many other lyrics with consistency?

3. Who would be imaginative enough to come up with something as ingenious as the reason they went to India was to bring Paul's soul into the impersonator's body? And why do we find Beatles and Faul's lyrics that also match this?

4. Other things that have been discovered since from the 60IF document but have not been put into the story (like Paul's poisoning and having IBS) all match with phyisical evidence that has been found since. Who would make up something like Paul having IBS?

I firmly believe that the 60IF document is not a fraud and it was indeed written in the main by George Harrison.

[jae]

Also - that very charming style - sounds like him somehow.

[OceanChild]

Mrs. said:

You can't have facts without heart and conviction. That is just as faulty.

Facts exist outside 'heart and conviction'. When you have 'heart and conviction' you miss the truth because you only allow yourself to see what you already believe. You don't need to 'believe' that 2+2=4 or that the sun is 93 million miles away. Equally, you don't need belief when it comes to a scientific enquiry into PiD. The facts are beyond what anyone believes.

The only thing one can have on a website, however, is belief and conjecture. Whereas I, too, am flabbergasted by the photographic evidence presented to us via 60if I am wary enough of being scammed that I am holding my final opinion until I get a second (and third) opinion. That's what I am trying to get a film made...

It could turn out that Paul really is dead- no matter how much anyone else believes he isn't, the fact would be that he is no more and we've been fed an imposter all these years. Equally it could turn out that there is a rational (but difficult to find) reason for the inconsistancies in his look, and no matter how much PiDbelievers *believe*, the fact would be that Paul is very much alive.

I don't think it is wrong for people to speculate, nor do I think it's wrong for others to challenge those speculations. Everyone needs to understand and respect everyone else's roles in this quest for the truth...

And we will find the truth.

[LessPaul]

Mrs. Redford,

This si not intended as a flame...but, you wrote;

"I'm not seeing any of this in established and trustworthy news sources, or on a wide scale basis.

Those are the REAL cold hard "facts".

Have you heard about this in the "established, trustworthy media?"

www.sierratimes.com/03/08/10/ar_IRS_vs._KUGLIN.htm

I doubt you will. Just because it's not covered by the mainstream news doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't the truth...media outlets dictate what to cover and what to ridicule. I'm pretty sure that the "gub'ment" would like to keep it's citizens as dim as possible while they perform their little secrets in the dark.

WELCOME Zappaisbest...Frank is the Man!

[xpt626]

"Those are the REAL cold hard "facts". "


An aerodynamic engineer will also tell you that, according to the law of physics, a bumblebee cannot fly.

[Zappaisbest]

Wow, I didn't mean for everyone to start jumping on Mrs. Redford's case or anything. I was just pointing out that the document has some loop holes. I would personally like to see an actual scan of the document myself, before I believe further. Any shmuck on the internet can type out a long splurg, and convince people it's actually true. Before we consider this text as fact, we should maybe look at the source itself. The pictures are alone evidence that something was fishy, but that's because I am seeing it with my own eyes. So once I see this actual document written in the orignal language given in, then I will more than willingly considering this actual evidence.

[Zappaisbest]

And what xpt626 says about bees are true. We live in a world where we'd LIKE to think that we have everything figured out, but really, we're not even close. Eventually our galaxy will collide with another one and humans will just be a memory of the universe. IF we make it that long without killing ourselves off. If you can't tell, I'm fighting both sides of the arguement here. I've listed what I've considered certain points that lead to Paul actually being Faul, but I've also doubted my own points and considered other possiblities. Maybe the Beatles did this in order to see how many psycho fans they have, how close they pay attention, and have those same fans go on to make webpages about their supposed conspiracy. Anything is possible.

[Chris]

I have been meaning to say this for quite awhile now. It seems that the fact that the mainstream media isn't covering this, is held against us. The fact that we haven't been able to get many mainstream scientists interested in our forensic evidence, also counts against us.
Have any of you heard of the Starchild Project If not, here it is:
www.starchildproject.com/
After you look through that, here's the June 17th 2003 update on this project : www.starchildproject.com/june17update.html

This project has been going on for years. Mr. LLoyd Pye put his name, his reputation, everything he had on the line for this project.
Even with the evidence that he accumulated, he STILL had trouble getting experts in the forensic sciences to step forward. Because of what he was suggesting. Because it goes against most current belief systems.
Take a look at ALL the evidence. Once you've read it all & looked at all the forensic proof, maybe you'll have a better idea what we're up against...

Any questions ??

All we need is love & the TRUTH !!!!!

Chris

[Renee]

Ocean Child - You need both otherwise people won't listen.

To Everyone else - I still stick by what I say.

[OceanChild]

Mrs. Redford-

I, like, yourself am a natural skeptic.

I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-Ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in yoga
I don't believe in kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me

If you mean that in order to spread newly discovered facts to a skeptical audience, then, yes, one needs 'heart and conviction' in order to see them through the hard work they need to achieve their aim... but it is perfectly possible (and probably preferable) to have facts *without* heart and conviction.

I think the more passionate one is about something out of the mainstream the more people are going to automatically disbelieve. The more of an 'obsessive' one appears, the less serious one will be taken. The one who shouts the loudest may get heard, but they aren't usually listened to.

The Buddha said: "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. " That's why I am a Buddhist I always try to take the Middle Way.

[Zappaisbest]

Funny how all these posts have nothing to do with what I first said. It seems just like personal rants against other people with different opinions. I think I made some pretty valid opinions on both sides, and I was expecting feedback, not arguements.

"If we all told the truth, then we wouldn't need a government" - Me

[Matt]

"Nothing is true, everything is permited."
-some sufi, paraphrased by William Burroughs.

[Renee]

That's not to say I don't have an imagination. I just know how to keep it all seperate.

[SunKing]

Zappaisbest said:

Alright, I stumbled across this whole entire "Paul is dead" conspiracy through a link from a Zappa based website. I must say that I hadn't paid much attention to the Beatles before hand, nor did I like them much. Their simple chords and 4/4 based songs just didn't do it for me. Plus they stuck with the nasty American sound after they came here. Then I read up on all the opinions and so-called "facts" listed in all the websites available. I downloaded numerous videos to compare younger and older Paul, his playing styles, and if he was even playing the right notes. I was very surprised at the Sgt. Pepper's picture of Paul, because that obviously doesn't look like him at all. I downloaded the video "Magical Mystery Tour" and I found that during "I am the Walrus", Paul is holding the bass more towards the ground (which in all the earlier videos before 1966, he holds his bass rather firm and close to him) , and is plucking the strings with little or no effort. It basically looked like he was a person that had never picked up a bass before, and had just been shown what notes to play. One thing that caught my attention was this document that George was suppose to have written. This sentence bugged me. "At the time John was in Paris and George was in India." If this document was suppose to have been written by George, then why would George talk about himself in 3rd person? And if it's not written by George, then who is it written by? Ringo, Paul, and John are all mentioned too, so they would be speaking in third person also. Another thing is all the blatent clues. From what I have gather so far, I'd say it IS possible that Paul was replaced, but maybe not for the reasons you think. I think perhaps this was an inside joke that the band had going, and maybe even see how many people they could fool by puttin a completely different Paul in the line up, and in the album covers. Who knows. If I was famous, I'd do the same thing. f*ck with you. That's all I have to say. I'm curious to hear what you all are thinking. Let her rip. *modified certain typos*

It's strange, Friends, but THIS above is actually an hypothesis of mine soon after I got "60IF".
Then it doesn't sound so strange.
But the other facts all around this matter told me that this hypothesis was one on the most improbable.
...and because Brian Epstein was replaced too....

[SunKing]

OceanChild said:

Facts exist outside 'heart and conviction'. When you have 'heart and conviction' you miss the truth because you only allow yourself to see what you already believe. You don't need to 'believe' that 2+2=4 or that the sun is 93 million miles away. Equally, you don't need belief when it comes to a scientific enquiry into PiD. The facts are beyond what anyone believes.

The only thing one can have on a website, however, is belief and conjecture. Whereas I, too, am flabbergasted by the photographic evidence presented to us via 60if I am wary enough of being scammed that I am holding my final opinion until I get a second (and third) opinion. That's what I am trying to get a film made...

It could turn out that Paul really is dead- no matter how much anyone else believes he isn't, the fact would be that he is no more and we've been fed an imposter all these years. Equally it could turn out that there is a rational (but difficult to find) reason for the inconsistancies in his look, and no matter how much PiDbelievers *believe*, the fact would be that Paul is very much alive.

I don't think it is wrong for people to speculate, nor do I think it's wrong for others to challenge those speculations. Everyone needs to understand and respect everyone else's roles in this quest for the truth...

And we will find the truth.

[glow=red,2,300]A MASTERPIECE[/glow]

[Henz]

Uberkinder and Paul Bearer did respond directly to your first post, Zappaisbest.


Here's a quote for the ZIO document: (Zappa IS Overated)

"Zappa would get Steve Vai or Kyong Soo Won on his albums to play in quartel harmonies in 13/8 at 144 BPS and that was supposed to qualify him a musical genius. Remember the song “Dancing Fool”? Oh god, the whole album “Shiek Yerbutti” (whatever) was about as lame as it can get. I’m talking cringe lame. His voice is lame too."

[Chris]

I agree, my Sun King . What Ocean Child wrote is a masterpiece !!!!!

All we need is love & the TRUTH !!!!

Chris

[Zappaisbest]

Posted by: Henz Posted on: Today at 08:12am
Uberkinder and Paul Bearer did respond directly to your first post, Zappaisbest.

Here's a quote for the ZIO document: (Zappa IS Overated)

"Zappa would get Steve Vai or Kyong Soo Won on his albums to play in quartel harmonies in 13/8 at 144 BPS and that was supposed to qualify him a musical genius. Remember the song “Dancing Fool”? Oh god, the whole album “Shiek Yerbutti” (whatever) was about as lame as it can get. I’m talking cringe lame. His voice is lame too."

Hahahaha, you say Zappa was over-rated? What about the Beatles. They basically just sucked hardcore after the 'Magical Mystery Tour album". They stuck with that nasty grunge distortion that they never even knew about till they came to America. They were all out of tune vocally and instrumentally. I knew that at least a COUPLE of people responded to my comments, which I was glad about. The rest was just pointless bickering, like yourself. Appearently this is suppose to change the way I think about Zappa. Just to let you know, I've played shows with Ike Willis, and Napolean Murphy Brock a couple of times. My whole musical life has Zappa to thank. He wasn't attempting to be called a genius just because he could compose insane time signatures and have Steve Vai play them. Steve Vai actually started writing out all of Zappa's work when he was 18 (Steve beings such a big fan of Frank's), everything Steve Vai has done is because of Frank. But regardless, this has gotten WAY off of the topic. Just because my name happens to be "Zappaisbest" is no reason for you to just pull some illogical quote about Zappa out of your ass and post it. How about this one? Chew on some deep fried turds, come back in a week and tell me how you feel.

Eric.