Did Paul Commit Suicide?

[PaulBearer]

Maybe he meant more than one of those things. The double (or is it triple) entendre again.

[SunKing]

Billy said:

S.K. that's just one interpretation. John might also have been talking about his own addiction to heroin. He sure looked bad at that time! Since some of the words are obviously gibberish & some can be interpreted the way you just said, it's really anybody's guess what Johnny REALLY meant.

John?
Nooo.....John was "only" "so tired".....




...mih ssim mih ssim mih ssim nam daed a saw luaP....

[BillyJones]

I agree with that totally. That's what I said, luv ;D John wrote I'm so tired BECAUSE he missed Paul. He felt so quilty over Paul's death that he couldn't sleep!

[abbey]

I totally agree. John was unable to sleep because of what happened to his best friend. His dreams would have been total nightmares. His waking hours haunted.

[PaulBearer]

I don't think it was so much Paul's death as the coverup that was keeping him awake. His mind was "on guard" all the time and alert so as to not let anything slip and so the strain robbed him of sleep. Perhaps also the stress of coming up with clues wouldn't help.

[abbey]

PB, it was probably all of those things that kept John from getting any sleep...both your comments and mine, that is.

[BillyJones]

P.B. - yep, that too!

[byrdsmaniac]

SunKing said:

... Just Like Dylan's Mr. Jones ? ! ? ! ?

Here it is...

You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, "Who is that, man?"
You try so hard
But you don't understand
Just what you'll say
When you get home

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You raise up your head
And you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says
"It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?"
And somebody else says, "Where what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God
Am I here all alone?"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect
Anyway they already expect you
To just give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations

You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin' around
You should be made
To wear earphones

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?


...there is ANOTHER CLUE for you all.......

....all wriitten in the White Album lyrics (and Poster)...

This song seems to be about the scene at Andy Warhol's "The Factory".
However "Mr. Jones" seems to be William Shepherd
after he became "Faul".
("You have many contacts among the lumberjacks
to get you facts when someone attacks your imagination".)
His intelligence-community connections
enable him to blackmail people he doesn't like by digging up dirt on them.

"What do you see when you turn out the light?
I can't tell you, but I know it's mine" sings Billy Shears,
in Sgt.Pepper.

relates to: "And somebody points to you and says, "It's his". It's William's stash.
Apparently he's the one who provided it for the party-goers who were using it already when he arrived.

The Geek is Andy Warhol, who asks Faul how it feels to be such a freak. As does the transvestite who was
"loaned" Faul's voice. (Who?)


"Now you see this one-eyed midget shouting the word
"NOW!" and you say "For what reason?" And he says
"How?" And you say "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow; Give me some milk or go home!"

I had always believed the one-eyed midget was David Bowie. If it's Paul, the verse above could mean
Paul was demanding payment for something or demanding drugs? It's not clear.

"Let it Bleed" has clues too.

[byrdsmaniac]

Look at some of the "Let It Bleed" lyrics:

I was dreaming of a steel guitar engagement
When you drank my health in scented jasmine tea
But you KNIFED ME in my dirty filthy basement
With that jaded faded junky nurse
Oh what pleasant company!




I think the "faded junky 'nurse'" may have been Edie Sedgewick who was one of the Warhol women entourage,
known as "Superstars". She is the most famous of them.
I believe she is "the pretty nurse (who) is fixing poppies on a tray" in "Penny Lane".
Also the one who came in through the bathroom window
protected by a 'silver spoon' (a rent-a-cop using a spoon for a badge).

It may be she who "wonders by the banks of her own lagoon."

Edie died of an overdose Nov 15, 1971.

Was Paul murdered in his own basement? Was Andy Warhol involved?
Is that why John wrote "Instant Karma"?
Instant Karma's gonna get you; gonna knock you off your feet! A message to Andy and Edie?

[abbey]

I don't believe that Paul committed suicide. He had too much to live for. He was the most prolific he had ever been. He had just been to the Melody Makers Music awards. He knew that he was good at what he did. He knew that the world loved him. WHY kill himself ???Anyway, no offense meant, but I believe that Paul thought too much of himself to ever do himself in !
Just IMHO of course

[plastic paul]

First of all i have to say i refute the possibility that JPM died from his IBS, i think the whole notion is preposterous.

I agree with SMA . IMO if JPM wanted out of the beatles and they still wanted to replace him he wouldnt of minded coz he would still have been able to write songs etc for them and reaped the rewards without being mobbed etc. He would never have committed suicide!

[byrdsmaniac]

"(Shoot)(Shoot)(Shoot)(Shoot)
Here come ol' flat top, he come groovin up slowly (etc.)"

Paul may not have intended to commit suicide.
Here's what you have to understand: In the 1960's there weren't many medicines to deal with IBS.
My father had it. One thing that does control it is cocaine.
(I'm not saying my father used cocaine! ;D )
Although cocaine is usually snorted, the use of the word "shoot" in the lyrics may simply be meant to connote the use of drugs by Paul,
including possibly heroin. An accidental death by cocaine can occur if the respiratory system shuts down. Given his financial status, Paul was very likely using cocaine to keep his IBS under control.
What's more, he was very likely to have been using heroin from time to time. Remember the song "Dr. Robert"? Cocaine + heroin= trouble.

I remember one reviewer of the white album stating that "Yer Blues" perfectly conveys
the agony felt by a heroin user that is overdue for a fix. I wouldn't know, but the one-eyed midget's desperation sounds about right in "Mr. Jones".

I would like to think that the one-eyed midget might be a reference to Bowie, but in any case, Paul was very likely seriously addicted to cocaine and possibly to heroin as well.

[Perplexed]

byrdsmaniac said:

"(Shoot)(Shoot)(Shoot)(Shoot)
Here come ol' flat top, he come groovin up slowly (etc.)"

Paul may not have intended to commit suicide.
Here's what you have to understand: In the 1960's there weren't many medicines to deal with IBS. My father had it. One thing that does control it is cocaine.
(I'm not saying my father used cocaine! ;D )
Although cocaine is usually snorted, the use of the word "shoot" in the lyrics may simply be meant to connote the use of drugs by Paul, including possibly heroin. An accidental death by cocaine can occur if the respiratory system shuts down. Given his financial status, Paul was very likely using cocaine to keep his IBS under control. What's more, he was very likely to have been using heroin from time to time. Remember the song "Dr. Robert"? Cocaine + heroin= trouble.

I remember one reviewer of the white album stating that "Yer Blues" perfectly conveys the agony felt by a heroin user that is overdue for a fix. I wouldn't know, but the one-eyed midget's desperation sounds about right in "Mr. Jones".

I would like to think that the one-eyed midget might be a reference to Bowie, but in any case, Paul was very likely seriously addicted to cocaine and possibly to heroin as well. And 'tho' I would like to believe Paul did not intend to kill himself, it may have seemed like a reasonable option if he was both a.) in withdrawal and b.) having heart-break from a relationship gone bad.

"Even hate my rock and roll". Gotta be a musician!

It's not pleasant to think of Paul suffering to that degree, but if it happened, it happened. I don't think any the less of him, but Sun King wants us to know the truth in this post.

As sad as that theory makes me , that is feasible.
Coke+Heroin = interrupt electrical signals in heart tissue, heart could stop.

Still, there is so much about a car wreck, and a traffic light, etc....

An accident while in a near overdose?
So out of it that you don't know what's going on well enough to drive?

I could see a drugr elated fatality as something the family would prefer to
keep a lid on. The shame of it--especially then, no matter ow wonderful a person someone is, the stigma toward illicit drug use is so pervasive, and rightly so for society's sake, but not to ever want to have the poor innocent kids have to deal with knowing that about a Beatle.......

Janice Joplins, the Doors, Hendrix, their crowd was not always, but generally older than the youngest cross section of the Beatles crowd, I mean, EVERYBODY in all age groups loved the Beatles, but the 6-15
menographic was SUCH a big piece of the pie. I was in the first grade in 1963. I was 6. We loved their songs on the radio then, as much as any other performer's.

[abbey]

Paul was in a car wreck, yes. He did NOT die because of it. It was all laid out very neatly in the ORIGINAL 60IF document. He was kidnapped & killed later.
What has to be determined are the particulars of the kidnapping & HOW EXACTLY JAMES PAUL DIED !!!
I have no doubt that he did drugs. They all did drugs. I honestly don't think they had that much to do with his death. Yes, he was in alot of pain. Just look at these photos, both taken from the same photo session:



He looked gawdawful

[byrdsmaniac]

Well something is going on here, Mr. Smith, and it ties in with the whole "one-eyed midget" stuff. We have that picture of Paul winking, as well as the drawing of it on the door of the Abbey Road studio doors, somewhere on this site. (Somebody who can post pictures from one part of the site to another, PLEASE post one of those pictures.)
Then, in the "Other Conspiracies" section we have the discussion of Shakespeare in the "There was no deep throat" article, including the mention of Shakespeare being a group effort. And in that discussion Total Information says: "Marlowe was against what they were trying to do via 'Shake-speare' and was killed for it. Knifed in the eye - he 'saw' too much."
Then, in the CLUES section we have the "Re: Billy Shears" thread where yours truly mentions that
BILLY SHephERd = BILLY SHEERS as does
William (BILL) reallY-SHakes-up-his-pEERS (note capital letters).
So: Billy Shepherd aka William Shakespeare
Paul aka Marlowe
And we haven't even gotten to the weirdness that back in Shakespeare's day, the letter "f "
was written like an "s" so that YOU COULD HARDLY TELL THEM APART. So we have: Faul became Paul
just like: Saul became Paul in the Bible
not to mention that Jude (Judas) betrayed Jesus and then hung himself from a tree.
So in "Strawberry Fields Forever" John sings, "No one I think is in my tree"
which means that "Hey Jude" is "Hey John" who is going to take a "sad song and make it better".
So there's a bit of a suggestion that just as Judas betrayed Christ, John betrayed Paul, who was planning to go solo (to be "Free As A Bird") and end his career as a Beatle despite John's pleading in "Oh Darling".

So "On A Clear Day You Can See Forever", especially when it's the same day played over and over and over again,
and the more things change, the more they stay the same. Deja Vu all over again.
And only the role-playing gets switched around. "And 'tho' she feels she's in a play, she is anyway".

Yes, a "Passion Play" (absolutely a PASSION play)
with Paul in the role of Christ. Ascending into the heavens on Gemini 12, and "risen from the dead" as
Faul, as shown by the fact that there's AROSE in his mouth on Red Rose Speedway cover, 'til his return, or should I say,
the return of the REAL Paul when he's 64 ("When I'm 64") which is next year.
And John, like John the Baptist spreading "THE WORD"
in Rubber Soul, or singing "CHRIST you know it ain't easy! You know how hard it can be. The way things are going, THEY'RE GOING TO CRUCIFY ME!"

Well I say "he doth protest too much", as was stated by someone in one of Billy Shears' plays.
"Well I say, it's all right" in "Here Comes the Sun", or rather,
"Here Comes the SON" which is a bit like "Here Come the Sun King",
and I say, "With our love, we could save the world if they only knew!"
So I say "Tell me tell me tell me the answer!"

[byrdsmaniac]

So here's a little more on that moped accident:

John: "I was dreaming of the past
and my heart was beating fast
I began to lose control
I didn't mean to hurt you
I'm sorry that I made you cry
I'm just a jealous guy
I was feeling insecure
You might not love me any more"


Why was he dreaming of the past?

A. Because Paul was threatening to leave the band.
B. Because Paul was a junkie (see below)


Instant karma's going to get you
Gonna knock you right on your head
You better get yourself together darling
Or pretty soon you're going to be dead.


Instant karma, eh?
Was he selling it? In the "So Sad" thread the words from the song "Simply Shady" include these:

"No sooner had I sown it (as in 'sew the wind; reap the whirlwind')
when I began to reap
I was torn from shallow water
And plunged into the deep
And as I started drowning
I clung onto a straw
that somehow kept me floating
while my madness craved for more"

[BeatlePaul]

byrdsmaniac said:

Yes, a "Passion Play" (absolutely a PASSION play)
with Paul in the role of Christ. Ascending into the heavens on Gemini 12, and "risen from the dead" as
Faul, as shown by the fact that there's AROSE in his mouth on Red Rose Speedway cover, 'til his return, or should I say,
the return of the REAL Paul when he's 64 ("When I'm 64") which is next year.
And John, like John the Baptist spreading "THE WORD"
in Rubber Soul, or singing "CHRIST you know it ain't easy! You know how hard it can be. The way things are going, THEY'RE GOING TO CRUCIFY ME!"

Well I say "he doth protest too much", as was stated by someone in one of Billy Shears' plays.
"Well I say, it's all right" in "Here Comes the Sun", or rather,
"Here Comes the SON" which is a bit like "Here Come the Sun King",
and I say, "With our love, we could save the world if they only knew!"
So I say "Tell me tell me tell me the answer!"

Yeh, there's something happening here, Mr. Perplexed
there's something happening here, Mr. Total Information
there's something happening here, Mr. Paul Bearer
There's something happening here Mr. Beatle Paul
does Mr. Apollo C. Vermouth know what it? (Yes he does. )

PURE GOLD

[byrdsmaniac]

byrdsmaniac said:

Instant karma's going to get you
Gonna knock you right on your head
You better get yourself together darling
Or pretty soon you're going to be dead.


Instant karma, eh?
Was he selling it? In the "So Sad" thread the words from the song "Simply Shady" include these:

"No sooner had I sown it (as in 'sew the wind; reap the whirlwind')
when I began to reap
I was torn from shallow water
And plunged into the deep
And as I started drowning
I clung onto a straw
that somehow kept me floating
while my madness craved for more"

"gonna knock you right on your head"
"Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down upon his head"

I have a bad feeling about this...

[byrdsmaniac]

Sister said:

I don't believe that Paul committed suicide. He had too much to live for.

Yes, I agree with you now that I've read some of the other posts.
The evidence suggests something else:

"Here come ol' flat top, he come groovin up slowly"
I hate to say this, but when I heard the lyric
I had this image appear in my mind of being John,
looking down in the water, seeing Paul's dead body floating up to the surface slowly,
after it had been loosened from the "hole in the ocean" by the yellow submarine.
Also, (I hate to have to say this!)
it seems clear to me that in the song "She's So Heavy", what we're hearing is Paul,
swimming through a stormy sea carrying the body of either Sylvie or Fylvie
(and the circumstantial evidence points to Sylvie)
on his back, and managing to swim 15 miles (15 repetitions of that chorus) at the end
of the song before giving up the ghost, and drowning.
There's not much else that fits.

And I'd have to mention, that if Paul swam 15 miles through stormy seas carrying Sylvie's body,
those who heard about it would have said, "Holy $%!#! He must have been Superman!"
which would be the origin of that "Will Paul be back? He's Superman!"
ditty put at the end of Sgt. Pepper in reverse.
(Forward: "I never could see any other way")

[gracemer]

With the physical condition Paul was in near the end of his life I doubt he could swim even a mile just by himself.

[abbey]

I agree with gracemer. Paul's phycial condition at the time of his death wouldn't have allowed him to swim 15 ft.....maybe that's an exaggeration, but he could never, ever have swum that far, let alone carrying another human being.