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LSD
Aug 9, 2003 5:41:55 GMT
Post by FatherMackenzie on Aug 9, 2003 5:41:55 GMT
Hey, folks! I'm new to the forum here and just got through reading most of the evidence (both here and elsewhere). Can't say I agree, but I do have an open mind, and some of the physical evidence does seem to indicate that something unpublicized had been going on.
My question is about the I.B.S. suggestion and how it relates to Paul's supposedly having been incapable of ingesting LSD because of this disorder. That is, what makes you think that he couldn't have taken acid even if he did indeed have I.B.S.?
LSD is odorless, colorless, and (for the purposes of "tripping") is meted out in microgram units in the 100-300mcg range. Having used LSD personally and having studied it academically in quite some depth, I see no reason why a stomach disorder would preclude one's ability to survive a "trip."
I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, but if you all are planning to "go anywhere" with this project, so to speak, I just figured you might appreciate a "heads up" about a potential weak point in the argument sure to be exploited quite readily by any pharmacologist/chemist/biologist.
Keep at it though - some of the forensics are quite compelling!
Father M.
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LSD
Aug 9, 2003 8:11:50 GMT
Post by TotalInformation on Aug 9, 2003 8:11:50 GMT
LSD enters the bloodstreeam through the digestive tract. So even if it's not a question of survival, there's a question of how much the blood would have a chance to absorb, yes? Or how he would have handled a trip crapping his pants the whole time and if that was something he wanted to deal with at all. Also -- how much research was available on LSD digestion issues to someone in 1966 (someone without a clearance at Sandoz or wherever)?
Additionally, I believe it has been documented on the boards here that Lennon had teased Paul about not taking any.
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LSD
Aug 9, 2003 20:52:46 GMT
Post by FatherMackenzie on Aug 9, 2003 20:52:46 GMT
No, it definitely does not enter through the digestive tract. it is absorbed through moist tissue layers, which is why Albert Hoffmann accidentally dosed himself in his lab (absobed through fingers). Also, most takers allow it to absorb under the tongue. However, I have also seen some literally place drops in their eyes, where it is absorbed quite readily.
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LSD
Aug 9, 2003 21:28:22 GMT
Post by TotalInformation on Aug 9, 2003 21:28:22 GMT
I did misspeak. (Mistype?) Obviously LSD can be absorbed in the mouth or through the skin. But if you go back and look you'll see stories from the 60s about people taking it in sugar cubes and then having their stomachs pumped, particularly if they took it unknowingly. I read recently some quotes from Lennon talking about how he had first taken it with sugar.
Maybe if Paul had lived he would have learned how he might have tripped without the LSD entering his hurting digestive system. (Again, if he thought he could have handled a trip and his already weak bowels simultaneously.)
But as it stands now, we know that Lennon had teased Paul about it before he died, and we know that one of Faul's firsdt public appearances was to go on the BC and extol the virtues of acid.
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LSD
Aug 9, 2003 21:48:45 GMT
Post by FatherMackenzie on Aug 9, 2003 21:48:45 GMT
Ok, believe what you want (the sugar cubes are sucked on and stomach-pumping was not used...thorazine was administered to "bring someone down"). In fact, one cannot even "OD" on LSD, as it compromises no organ systems - neither does it cause tissue necrosis. LSD was discovered in 1943 - a lot more was known about in the 50s and 60s than some might think.
All I'm saying is that if you plan on making this LSD angle focal to the argument, you will be shot down and ridiculed quite easily, by scientists and "heads" alike. I have a MS in Mech. Engineering with a BS in Chemistry and a BA in English Literature. Someone with a PhD in Chemistry or Biology (or a Med. Doctor) would have no problem cutting that branch off the tree, so to speak.
Anyway, just thought I'd try to help - I'd stick to the physical evidence, which seems to be the most compelling and incontrovertible.
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LSD
Aug 9, 2003 22:36:51 GMT
Post by newave on Aug 9, 2003 22:36:51 GMT
I don't believe this whole "IBS" bull anyway. This has not been officially proven by any of The Beatles, and I have run countless Google searches and found nothing relating to Paul having it. My theory is some certain people pulling it out of their ass and having fun with an old urban legend.
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LSD
Aug 10, 2003 0:16:30 GMT
Post by TotalInformation on Aug 10, 2003 0:16:30 GMT
stomach-pumping was not used
It has been, I've seen references to it. I'm not saying it's the correct treatment, but it was not unheard of. In fact, I think a friend of mine may have had his stomach pumped after taking some just a few years ago. I'll ask him.
LSD was discovered in 1943 - a lot more was known about in the 50s and 60s than some might think.
Yes, but known by who?
The fact is Paul would not take LSD, and Faul promoted it publicly.
The physical evidence is rather conclusive, and these boards can and should be used to suss out the motive. LSD as a tool of attempted mind control is a part of that.
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LSD
Aug 10, 2003 22:32:24 GMT
Post by Renee on Aug 10, 2003 22:32:24 GMT
LSD is a lot like ecstasy in the sense that it's colorless and odorless and can cost you your life. WEED, on the other hand.... My theory is some certain people pulling it out of their ass and having fun with an old urban legend.
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Matt
Contributor
Posts: 99
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 2:55:48 GMT
Post by Matt on Aug 11, 2003 2:55:48 GMT
i've always heard that "she said she said" was the first song that they wrote on acid. i assumed that meant lennon and mccartney together. if so that puts paul's first experience with LSD before the supposed paul/faul switch. can anyone verify?
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Matt
Contributor
Posts: 99
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 3:06:10 GMT
Post by Matt on Aug 11, 2003 3:06:10 GMT
p.s. however.... on the subject of "social engineering" it is true that "faul"s alleged "first appearances" were public statements on counterculture ethos (do what though wilt) and LSD use. social engineering?..... :
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 3:11:48 GMT
Post by TotalInformation on Aug 11, 2003 3:11:48 GMT
A quick check on google reveals Lennon, not McCartney wrote "She Said, She Said."
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Matt
Contributor
Posts: 99
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 5:11:11 GMT
Post by Matt on Aug 11, 2003 5:11:11 GMT
yeah, my mistake.
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 10:24:38 GMT
Post by Ramon on Aug 11, 2003 10:24:38 GMT
With regard to Matt and She said She said it was written when John was hanging out with Roger Mcguinn of the Byrds and PeterFonda.It was allegedly Peter Fonda who kept telling Lennon he knew what it was like to be dead.They were hanging and tripping in some LA mansion[lLennon Remembers]
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 10:27:02 GMT
Post by Uberkinder on Aug 11, 2003 10:27:02 GMT
Actually, the problem is not the chemical itself, but one of it's side effects. LSD and other drugs in this family are capable of causing very severe cramps, and if taken in large doses can make the body extremely rigid. I can personally attest to this (bad experience).
Irritable bowel syndrome makes the bowels very susceptible to cramps; I can personally attest to this as well. I can't lean forward for a couple of minutes sometimes without getting a severe cramp around my navel area which feels like a piece of jagged metal passing through my intestines. My sister had a big problem with this for quite awhile and had to take muscle relaxants. Luckily mine is much more mild.
There is the POSSIBILITY that this could be life threatening when combined with LSD, for it would theoretically be possible for the diaphram to sieze up and slowly suffocate a person who is too zonked out to know what's going on, but even if this did not happen, like I said, I can personally attest that no one who gets these kind of cramps would want to go through this more than once, but Faul claims to have done it many times.
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 12:09:20 GMT
Post by Chris on Aug 11, 2003 12:09:20 GMT
Andy - you'e a braver man then I. I never took acid. It just scared me too much. I wasn't comfortable enough in my own head. I've had times where I wasn't feeling too well & I smoked a little too much weed & I passed out. It happened once when I was cutting school with my boyfriend. We went to the laser show at the NY Planetarium. I smoked too much, passed out cold. Now, I felt that if that could happen, I didn't want to take a chance with LSD. I also felt that your head has to be in a good place to do LSD. Who in their right mind, would want to experience a bad trip. I think that when the group was 1st experimenting with LSD, Paul had alot of stuff going on. He was on again off again with Jane. He had that food poisoning incident that made him feel very sick at times. NOONE wants to do LSD if they're not feeling 100%. It's just a VERY bad idea.... So, Father McKenzie, I have to agree with Andrew & Paul Bearer. You may not think that having Irritable Bowel Syndrome is a scientifically valid reason NOT to take LSD. However, as someone who has had it for many years, I can tell you that I wouldn't take it if my condition is in an active phase. All you need is love... Chris
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 14:32:59 GMT
Post by spacebass on Aug 11, 2003 14:32:59 GMT
With regard to Matt and She said She said it was written when John was hanging out with Roger Mcguinn of the Byrds and PeterFonda.It was allegedly Peter Fonda who kept telling Lennon he knew what it was like to be dead.They were hanging and tripping in some LA mansion[lLennon Remembers] Hi everyone, i'm Paul, 23 from the UK. This is my first post on here after discovering Uberkinders site 3 days ago. I have to say I had heard roumours about Paul being dead before, but the site has definitly conviced me. My thanks to you all. Anyway, the reason for this post is that the same mansion that the Beatles experimented with LSD was used by the Red Hot Chilli Peppers to record their Blood Sugar Sex Magic album. If you watch the video/DVD of the same title, most of it is filmed in the mansion. Space
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LSD
Aug 11, 2003 23:46:28 GMT
Post by Uberkinder on Aug 11, 2003 23:46:28 GMT
That's strange. There seems to be a lot of this "cross-polination" kind of thing in rock & roll. Apparently Trent Reznor recorded an album in the house one of Manson family slayings took place in.
I understand what you mean about LSD Chris. What I never understood though, is how people seem to forget that they just took a drug. "Ah, I'm covered with spiders!" Well, you just ingested a hallucinagenic drug, do you actually think that's real? Never understood that.
I'm that kind of person that no matter how drunk or stoned I get, I never, ever lose sense of reality. I'm always painfully aware of how I appear to other people. I guess that's because I'm a scorpio.
I don't really believe in astrology as far as predicting the future, but I must admit I'm a absolute text-book scorpio; no matter what's going on inside I always project a perfectly calm, cool exterior that is impossible to read. I also seem to know intuitively how to read body language and can almost always tell when someone is lying to me. I can also lie with a perfectly straight-face poker face (if I was evil, that is). Doesn't really work over the internet, though.
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