|
Post by kungfuinstructor on Mar 3, 2005 5:42:44 GMT
The Kung Fu Instructor believes he has struck a nerve. Does it have anything to do with witchcraft, monsieur?
|
|
|
Post by Perplexed on Mar 3, 2005 8:10:53 GMT
The Lord, when He was here, told us we could not serve two masters. We'd hate one or the other, and hate ourselves for our duplicity.
As far as occult, as hidden, and concealed, there are a good many things God has concealed from mankinds. He does not reveal everything to
|
|
|
Post by PaulBearer on Mar 3, 2005 14:01:50 GMT
Hmmm...this thread is getting dangerously close to spiritual. Do you think it belongs there?
|
|
|
Post by jpm1942 on Mar 3, 2005 14:42:00 GMT
John Lennon always hated people reading things into Beatles music. I wonder how he would feel if he knew what was being done to Hey Jude, which he considered to be Faul's best song. IMHO, most of the drug references in Beatles songs can be found in John's music; maybe look there instead of pulling LSD out of a masterpiece like Hey Jude.
|
|
|
Post by kungfuinstructor on Mar 3, 2005 18:26:00 GMT
John Lennon always hated people reading things into Beatles music. Interesting perspective, monsieur. But how does this idea stack up against all the clues and subliminal messages that are found in The Beatles' recordings?
|
|
|
Post by jpm1942 on Mar 3, 2005 18:57:13 GMT
Like which ones? He wrote Glass Onion for the specific purpose of confusing people. I believe his exact words were, "Let the f*ckers figure that one out." Just a warning to be careful with interpreting lyrics. Most of the time, a song is just a song.
|
|
|
Post by gracemer on Mar 3, 2005 20:13:40 GMT
Holy cow! Who cares? It's not a big deal. I happen to enjoy Last Trumpet Ministries' newsletters even though I don't agree with Meyer on everything. I think he means well and I think he makes mistakes and reads too much into things sometimes. Not everyone who makes a mistake is a liar. As far as Meyer is concerned, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Occult does mean "hidden." The reason "occultists" hide their teachings is because they know they (the teachings) would be viewed by most people as being "evil." That wasn't so hard, was it?
This is a tempest in a teapot. Let's save the savagery for something more important...like MY opinions! ;D
|
|
|
Post by byrdsmaniac on Mar 4, 2005 0:32:05 GMT
Hmmm...this thread is getting dangerously close to spiritual. Do you think it belongs there? Now THAT's irony. The Super Bowl a spiritual issue. ;D
|
|
|
Post by PaulBearer on Mar 4, 2005 0:33:31 GMT
Some songs which sound like drug songs, are actually clues about Paul's death and so on. The old double-entendre strikes again. The scriptures say to judge not that you be not judged yourself. If Christians had some real discernment, they would know the pain the Beatles were going through and the real meaning of the songs. There is a tendency for Chrstiains to find the most spiteful interpretation they can and latch onto it. No love, no compassion, no real discernment, just hatefilled judgement. One of the worst interpreations I read from a so-called Christian is one that claimed that the song "You've got to hide your love away" was about masturbation. Viscious and nasty. For the record, I don't believe the song "Hey Jude" was suppose to be about drugs (though I may be corrected on this) but that interpretation may have been used as a convenient cover for what it was really about.
|
|
|
Post by plastic paul on Mar 4, 2005 1:08:21 GMT
i think the problem with devout religious people (particularly in relation to the beatles and other "non christian" things) is that they see something which they dont understand or which doesnt exactly tie in with their teachings, to be evil or heresy. (call it what u will, i think u know what i mean)
|
|
|
Post by gracemer on Mar 4, 2005 3:58:09 GMT
i think the problem with devout religious people (particularly in relation to the beatles and other "non christian" things) is that they see something which they dont understand or which doesnt exactly tie in with their teachings, to be evil or heresy. (call it what u will, i think u know what i mean) Hey, the religious people don't have the market cornered on seeing things that aren't there or that they don't understand. Stick around. You won't credit some of the asinine stuff the seculars post, but nobody blames it on their lack of religiosity! There was once a website called M4E that was devoted to seeing things that weren't there.
|
|
|
Post by Perplexed on Mar 4, 2005 6:28:11 GMT
Excellent last several posts, all.
Here's a point also--about the stage presentation. 9 will getcha' 10 that the stage configuration had NOTHING to do with Macca whatsoever. Some creative events person designed it. I know a LOT of these people. They are creative people. They use symmetry and lights, platforms, and lighting designs to make a performing picture exciting and suitable for whatever the occassion. It has nothing to do with religion, occultism, or the like. If Macca had had a Christian Cross on stage that preacher would have probably found a reason to trash that.
Google up "Stage designs, lighting designers, stageworks, event planning, event opticals'. (not all strung together!)
Read about how stage appearance is created, why, how, and how old is the tradition. (Ancient Greece and before.)
Some of these things are pre-fab, and owned by stagework companies, and rented out per performance.
I know some of these kinds of people. They are not worshipping Baal and getting ideas for presentation from seances and tea leaves. They study in college, apprentice with rofessionals, and pay their dues in a very competitive industry.
If someone thinks all entertainment is of the devil, then they should never watch much of anything, INCLUDING many religious glamourous productions, for fear of being possessed by the demon of show biz.
No TV, no stage shows, no glitzy Sunday morning TV prodcasts, no corporate events, no sports, nothing. No movies, no radio, no CDs. No Christian CDs, because all that technology, musical styles for the most part, and production tricks came from the unholy secular world. Also, he should get off the internet, unplug his phone, and never drive another car unless it is made by the holy Christian man, Henry Ford.
OK< I am the most facetious twit tonight, but really. The preacher likes to draw lines for everybody. Where is space left to live and experience?
I am not saying not to use discernment and make choices.
I am saying that he wants to discern and choose for all his readers. N'est pas?
I appreciate that he left a lifestyle of bondage, darkness, and probably a lot of fear and pain. And he deserves commendation and note for that.
But, he seems to only focus in on what he left----not what one goes TO.
His extensive writings are on what to eschew, in his opinion. And at times, he appears eager to form conclusions that place a devil behind every bush.
I feel that in doing so, he maybe throws the "evil baby" out, but keeps the stinky bathwater..........
|
|
|
Post by Perplexed on Mar 4, 2005 6:29:50 GMT
Some songs which sound like drug songs, are actually clues about Paul's death and so on. The old double-entendre strikes again. The scriptures say to judge not that you be not judged yourself. If Christians had some real discernment, they would know the pain the Beatles were going through and the real meaning of the songs. There is a tendency for Chrstiains to find the most spiteful interpretation they can and latch onto it. No love, no compassion, no real discernment, just hatefilled judgement. One of the worst interpreations I read from a so-called Christian is one that claimed that the song "You've got to hide your love away" was about masturbation. Viscious and nasty. For the record, I don't believe the song "Hey Jude" was suppose to be about drugs (though I may be corrected on this) but that interpretation may have been used as a convenient cover for what it was really about. I Love you, Paul Bearer. And, did you see the Lennon Lyrics I posted in the Lennon section? as so: Help Me To Help Myself (by John Lennon) Well I tried so hard to settle down But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin’ me, all around. But I know in my heart That we never really parted. Oh help me Lord. Help me to help myself. They say the Lord helps those who help themselves. So I’m asking this question in the hope that you’ll be kind. ‘Cause I know deep inside I was never satisfied. Oh help me Lord. Help me to help myself. (End Lyric Quote) "One day, a Pharisee and a tax-collector went down to the temple to pray. And, the tax-collector, being too ashamed to lift up his eyes toward heaven, prayed, "Lord, have mercy upon me', for I know that I am a sinner", while the Pharisee prayed, "Thank you Lord that I am not wicked like other men'. And who do you think went home that day justified? Verily, the it was tax-collector." (Paraphrase and faulty memory--I will find and replace soon....Don't let me get away with leaving this innacurate version here for long...but my point is made...) "Oh, Help me, Lord." "Help! Oh I need somebody. Help! Not just anybody! Help! Please Help!" Ah, yes, "Help!" I happen to know that God likes that strange little movie. I don't know exactly why, but He does. I know these things. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Perplexed on Mar 4, 2005 7:21:48 GMT
Like which ones? He wrote Glass Onion for the specific purpose of confusing people. I believe his exact words were, "Let the f*ckers figure that one out." Just a warning to be careful with interpreting lyrics. Most of the time, a song is just a song. My thought was that perhaps after his cavalier clue dropping in MMT, and SPLHCB, the head honchos around EMI came to him and said---OK, John, we've seen through the cute little clue's charade. Stop it now, OK? Stop it now, or forfeit millions......(JMO) And, so, who he was addressing, in my opinion, with the word f*ck*rs, was NOT the fans..........I need to see the whole context of his outburst to make a better opinion, but, I think, he was talking about the suits.......... I really don't think John had contempt for the Everyman. John WAS an Everyman caught in a power play bigger than himself. He said the Beatles were more popular than Christ---as commentary, not as a brag. I think he thought it peculiar, and unhealthy, the amount f attention focused on them. He said so OFTEN. He never siad, "I LOVE all this attention. I want more. I want to be be bigger than Jesus..I will ascend to the mountains of the North..." John didn't think that way. He wanted a big career, that is clear. But, I think the overreactions, the drooling fans, the sick coming to them for miracles, make him very, very queasy. I think he wanted to be known for leading and writing for a very tight, fun, energetic rock band. Period. Not a cultural, or a cult hero. John was a seeker, spiritually speaking. What was the promise? "Seek, and ye shall find?" We have the evidence that John DID "seek". And, we have the promise that he would "find." John came into life as an arrogant, boastful, proud, carousing, envious, covetous, disputing, divisive, violent, toung man. We have testimony a plenty to support this, much of it from his own mouth! He was shot down in cold blood after being made into a more humble, peace loving, kind, courteous, regretful, penitant thinker. Some preachers have said to the effect that he died in his sins, unrepentent, unregenerated, rebelious, not agreeing with the established order and not a good citizen. (! ! ! ! ) One I heard did a paragraph on John's wicked sould burning in everlasting torment in the pits of an eternal hell, and God's word made justified that preacher saying that he was glad of it! He said we Chrisitians (! ! ! ) ought to rejoice and be glad at God's vengeance wicked vile sinners should enter an eternal torture chamber. (! ! !) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, not WILLING that any should perish, but that all *men should believe on Him and recieve everlasting life." (OK, I'll check that verse too, but I think I am close. Where's my bible?)........ * "men" means men AND women. It's a translation/context issue. THE FOLLOWING IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, so that just a tiny handful of Christians would be saved while billions roast in fiery torments for ageless aeons. That'll teach 'em, those rebellious worms, whom we good people are nothing like, and remind us of how goodly and wonderfully holy we are each day, and how are goodness made our salvation possible, since we were loved and saved by our own holy behavior that we strove at till we knew we were good enough to make into heaven. God wanted to save more people, but was not able to for some reason. Actually, we're glad cause it means more for us on High." Nobody says that outloud, or writes it, or thinks it---but it shows from how part of the church thinks and acts. Oh, I am so off topic. About "Glass Onion". Either John wrote a meaningless song as an act of impudence to vent his disrespect and contempt for his audience............... ...or, John risked being misunderstood and wrote a time sensitive lyric meant to convey rather sensitive ideas to whomever could grasp it later. "Listen to me!......" That he had contempt for certain people is clear....... Besides, this is from the white album (so called), isn't that a 1968 release? Before the first real wave of Paul-is-deadism............what was he answering to in 1968?
|
|
|
Post by BeatlePaul on Mar 4, 2005 9:32:02 GMT
My thought was that perhaps after his cavalier clue dropping in MMT, and SPLHCB, the head honchos around EMI came to him and said---OK, John, we've seen through the cute little clue's charade. Stop it now, OK? Stop it now, or forfeit millions......(JMO) And, so, who he was addressing, in my opinion, with the word f*ck*rs, was NOT the fans..........I need to see the whole context of his outburst to make a better opinion, but, I think, he was talking about the suits.......... I really don't think John had contempt for the Everyman. John WAS an Everyman caught in a power play bigger than himself.
He said the Beatles were more popular than Christ---as commentary, not as a brag. I think he thought it peculiar, and unhealthy, the amount f attention focused on them. He said so OFTEN. He never siad, "I LOVE all this attention. I want more. I want to be be bigger than Jesus..I will ascend to the mountains of the North..." John didn't think that way. He wanted a big career, that is clear. But, I think the overreactions, the drooling fans, the sick coming to them for miracles, make him very, very queasy. I think he wanted to be known for leading and writing for a very tight, fun, energetic rock band. Period. Not a cultural, or a cult hero. John was a seeker, spiritually speaking. What was the promise? "Seek, and ye shall find?" We have the evidence that John DID "seek". And, we have the promise that he would "find." John came into life as an arrogant, boastful, proud, carousing, envious, covetous, disputing, divisive, violent, toung man. We have testimony a plenty to support this, much of it from his own mouth! He was shot down in cold blood after being made into a more humble, peace loving, kind, courteous, regretful, penitant thinker. Some preachers have said to the effect that he died in his sins, unrepentent, unregenerated, rebelious, not agreeing with the established order and not a good citizen. (! ! ! ! ) One I heard did a paragraph on John's wicked sould burning in everlasting torment in the pits of an eternal hell, and God's word made justified that preacher saying that he was glad of it! He said we Chrisitians (! ! ! ) ought to rejoice and be glad at God's vengeance wicked vile sinners should enter an eternal torture chamber. (! ! !) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, not WILLING that any should perish, but that all *men should believe on Him and recieve everlasting life." (OK, I'll check that verse too, but I think I am close. Where's my bible?)........ * "men" means men AND women. It's a translation/context issue. THE FOLLOWING IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, so that just a tiny handful of Christians would be saved while billions roast in fiery torments for ageless aeons. That'll teach 'em, those rebellious worms, whom we good people are nothing like, and remind us of how goodly and wonderfully holy we are each day, and how are goodness made our salvation possible, since we were loved and saved by our own holy behavior that we strove at till we knew we were good enough to make into heaven. God wanted to save more people, but was not able to for some reason. Actually, we're glad cause it means more for us on High." Nobody says that outloud, or writes it, or thinks it---but it shows from how part of the church thinks and acts. Oh, I am so off topic. About "Glass Onion". Either John wrote a meaningless song as an act of impudence to vent his disrespect and contempt for his audience............... ...or, John risked being misunderstood and wrote a time sensitive lyric meant to convey rather sensitive ideas to whomever could grasp it later. "Listen to me!......" That he had contempt for certain people is clear....... Besides, this is from the white album (so called), isn't that a 1968 release? Before the first real wave of Paul-is-deadism............what was he answering to in 1968? Just one of Perplexed masterpieces
|
|
|
Post by abbey on Mar 4, 2005 15:58:19 GMT
B.P, yes it is ;D
|
|
|
Post by BeatlePaul on Mar 4, 2005 16:12:36 GMT
About "Glass Onion". Either John wrote a meaningless song as an act of impudence to vent his disrespect and contempt for his audience............... ...or, John risked being misunderstood and wrote a time sensitive lyric meant to convey rather sensitive ideas to whomever could grasp it later. "Listen to me!......" That he had contempt for certain people is clear....... Besides, this is from the white album (so called), isn't that a 1968 release? Before the first real wave of Paul-is-deadism............what was he answering to in 1968? .... and Paul dead-looking into a "Glass Onion" of water ... ALL THAT IN 1967
|
|
|
Post by abbey on Mar 4, 2005 16:17:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by gracemer on Mar 4, 2005 18:21:16 GMT
Me too. Perplexed that was a great post--I was never comfortable thinking John was referring to his fans like that and you gave a marvelous alternative interpretation to his words.
Of all the Beatles, John is the one most likely to be in heaven--I sure hope so!
|
|
|
Post by byrdsmaniac on Mar 5, 2005 2:04:29 GMT
Not Faul?! ;D
|
|