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Post by Imgonnaopenmymind on Nov 25, 2003 23:54:58 GMT
NB: The first part of this thread is missing! - PB
There is no evidence that John ever beat Yoko, who was the love of his life until the end.
Unfortunately, this has only been confirmed in gossip rags. However, I believe I read something about Mrs. Tony Visconti (nee May Pang) confirming this.
Unfortunately, all of these have been confirmed.
While several possibilities of a beating that occurred have been brought up, they were probably not the cause of death.
Openmind
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Post by Perplexed on Nov 26, 2003 2:26:24 GMT
I knew a guy, Steve, who had an altercation in a bar with another guy. They began to argue, seated at a high top table. The other guy stood up and took a swing at Steve. Steve had been drinking, his reactions were slow, he went collapsing off the high top chair, hitting his head on the brick wall near by. He was stunned momentarily. The other guy was escorted out, I think arrested for a night for battery, then raleased the next day on bail. Steve went home. He was fine for three days. The third full day after the blow, he never awoke from bed. He had a vein burst in his head as, said the autopsy, most likely from the head trauma three nights before. His parents saught to press charges on the other guy. What a mess.
If only Busta Bloodvessel had been there to warn everyone.
I guess B.B. followed John around for a long time after his tiff with Sutcliffe.............
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Post by LUCY on Nov 27, 2003 0:04:54 GMT
If only Busta Bloodvessel had been there to warn everyone. I guess B.B. followed John around for a long time after his tiff with Sutcliffe............. what do you mean about BB? |
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Post by Eggman on Nov 27, 2003 22:30:47 GMT
according to the Guiliano bio, John: - was in the habit of beating up Cynthia (confirmed) - beat up Yoko - beat up May Pang - slapped and kicked Sean (confirmed) - raped a young woman before one Beatles concert - was rampantly unfaithful to both of his wives - had a tryst with a woman he'd just met while Yoko was in the next room (confirmed) - beat Stuart Sutcliffe to death in a violent rage has anyone heard these? This is what John said to Playboy 1980 about his relationship with the women: PLAYBOY: Getting Better? LENNON: "It is a diary form of writing. All that 'I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved' was me. I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically... any woman. I was a hitter. I couldn't express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women. That is why I am always on about peace, you see. It is the most violent people who go for love and peace. Everything's the opposite. But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster"  |
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Post by Perplexed on Nov 27, 2003 22:54:33 GMT
I was implying that, if John had a swing or two at Stuart, and then Stuart had his aneurysm a day or so later (although the time-line does not put Lennon in town in Germany with Stu until a few hours after Stu is dead) but anyway if that were the case, whether or not the "row" had anything to do with it:
then Lennon may have always felt guilty about it, and this finds expression, possibly, in the outworking of Busta Bloodvessel as a charactor in the MMT movie. Maybe John had referenced the idea outloud enough for it to have become a funny charactor. (Like Mr. Mean Old Mustard, the Pornographic Priestess, ya' know, maybe this was John way of expressing, to anthromorphise things). And maybe the gjilt associated with the possibility followed him. We don't know if John had a fight with Stu just previous or not. The time line made have been devised as cover. Is it a fact that they has a "row" just prior? Can we substantiated it?
And we see in this 1980 article (thanks, Eggman!) that he was still haunted by his earlier, younger violent actions in the last year of his life. I hope mean old Mr. Busta Bloodvessel wasn't still following him then.
Still, it is hard to see why a healthy7 young 22 year old rock and roll type would have an brain aneurysm. Alcohol perhaps? Drugs like cocaine and all that weren't reallyy that accessible then, were they? Or perhaps they were. Maybe he had a hidden circulatory weakness..............
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Post by MrMustard on Nov 28, 2003 7:02:02 GMT
I heard Stuart had a condition where his brain was growing too big for his skull so he had a severe haemorrhage. I could be wrong but that's what I heard happened.
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Post by MrMustard on Nov 28, 2003 7:03:31 GMT
according to the Guiliano bio, John: - raped a young woman before one Beatles concert I had no idea about this one... did he get charged for it or was it covered up? |
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Post by yellowmatter on Nov 28, 2003 14:30:59 GMT
My father had a severe brain haemorrhage when i was younger, and miraculously survived it- a very rare thing indeed - this happened despite being a healthy 45 yr old man with no history of this in his family.
haemorrhages can happen in the brain simpl because of a weakness that was there from birth. Having said this, with many people, this "weakness" does not usually affect them - a haemorrhage will not usually happen unless provoked. (in my dad's case he was flying a lot in pressurised aircraft on longhaul flights the week prior to the anneurism).
Stuart may have just had this weekness and felt under pressure at the time - high blood pressure perhaps?
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Post by PaulBearer on Nov 28, 2003 15:11:54 GMT
Also, it would be hard for many to believe that a woman would ever complain about being "done" by a Beatle, because what woman wouldn't want that to happen to her, so there must be something wrong with her etc etc...  |
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Post by yellowmatter on Nov 28, 2003 15:20:58 GMT
That's a very depressing thought  How do we know this is true again?? |
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Post by MrKite on Nov 30, 2003 10:50:30 GMT
In "The Compleat Beatles," it was stated that he had been jumped "by a gang of toughs," received a beating, and died a couple days later from a head injury sustained in the attack. Something internal that didn't manifest for a couple of days.
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Post by Imgonnaopenmymind on Nov 30, 2003 19:04:33 GMT
No, Stu had a certain tumor-like disease from birth.
Several different beatings (some of which may or may not have actually happened) triggered the blood overflow that killed Stu.
Plus, I think it should only be fair to bring up the claim that John and Stu had a possible homosexual affair, seeing as we're mentioning Stuart Sutcliffe so often around here now.
Openmind
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Post by Darkhorse on Dec 9, 2003 14:38:58 GMT
I think all of these could be true with the exception of the Stu Sutcliffe story.
Killing Stu even by accident would have ripped John apart. He never would have been able to live with himself. It certainly would have been evident in his songs, also.
One thing about stories being 'confirmed'. Even then the story can be false or made up. Once I was rumoured to be having an affair with a co-worker. Someone told this person that a 'very reliable source' told them about our 'affair' and that convinced the other person. Hmmmm 'A very reliable source'? Sounds convincing, doesn't it? Of course there was no truth to this story at all!!!! It was completely false! It happens all the time in real life and especially in the lives of famous people! People just love to make up stories about celebrities.
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Post by TotalInformation on Dec 9, 2003 15:22:47 GMT
Killing Stu . . . certainly would have been evident in his songs, also.
Good observation.
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Post by Imgonnaopenmymind on Dec 10, 2003 2:16:32 GMT
Ah, but it is. It also reflects on his personality. More examples soon.
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Post by gracemer on Dec 11, 2003 5:27:53 GMT
There's a couple of websites that carry the story of John beating Stu where he died several weeks later--not hours.
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Post by IanSingleton777 on Dec 14, 2003 1:20:51 GMT
I had no idea about this one... did he get charged for it or was it covered up?  I think this perported episode is misrepresented. It is documented, however, that in 1964/65 when the band were cute moptops, they all got terrible nerves before the shows. It is confirmed that at least once John had spur-of-the-moment sex (standing up, with the woman against a wall, no less!) in the wings, in full Beatle suit, minutes before going on stage. Apparently, it did the trick and he felt much better afterwards! I highly doubt it was rape. |
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Post by Imgonnaopenmymind on Dec 31, 2003 3:17:42 GMT
Well, it did happen, but he did it with such force, pushing her onto the floor in the process, that she did something to his little mac, which started to bleed. He yelled at her, asking what the f**k she did to his c**k while the other three snickered and Neil Aspinall did a quick fix before he went on.
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Post by unrepentant on Jan 13, 2004 18:14:29 GMT
too bad lennon became so wussified around the time paul died. i mean, if only some of that old agressiveness were THERE when the government agents threatened his life [and, by implication, the lives of his family]. but no, he wimped out completely and went along with it. the old lennon was a two-fisted roughneck, the post-1966 one was a submissive stooge who let the government walk all over him.
and before you accuse me of lennon-bashing, i'd like to say that i DON'T believe he ever physically hurt sean. he was asked that question directly and made it clear the allegations that he struck sean were bogus.... i also reject a lot of what albert goldman wrote in HIS book.
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Post by unrepentant on Sept 10, 2004 20:26:16 GMT
and i also doubt john killed paul while on LSD.
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Post by abbey on Sept 29, 2004 19:36:17 GMT
This is what John said to Playboy 1980 about his relationship with the women: PLAYBOY: Getting Better? LENNON: "It is a diary form of writing. All that 'I used to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved' was me. I used to be cruel to my woman, and physically... any woman. I was a hitter. I couldn't express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women. That is why I am always on about peace, you see. It is the most violent people who go for love and peace. Everything's the opposite. But I sincerely believe in love and peace. I am a violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public how I treated women as a youngster" Yes, I read the same book and all those statements were confirmed, including his relationship with Brian. Also he went to Bangkok where you can find just about anything to "relieve" yourself with. And John went to Bangkok with Yoko's blessing. Other books about Johnny confirm many of the same things. He was violent when he was younger. Even caused Yoko to have a miscarriage with one of his beatings. (Of course, it is difficult to have any soft feelings towards it, er I mean Yoko.) As to Stu Stutcliff, I heard it was a fight they got into years before where John kicked him in the head. The kick must have jarred the dormant tumor alive and it eventually killed him. Johnny felt really badly about that and even said he was afraid that he too would die violently in retribution for some of his past actions. He also almost beat Allen Klein to death when Allen made a quip about John trip to Spain with Brian. Johnny was drunk, as usual, and they had to pull him off Allen. Later Johnny told Pete Best the majority of the truth. |
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Post by PaulBearer on Sept 30, 2004 5:39:46 GMT
According to the movie Backbeat, it was a bunch of thugs that beat up Stu. Revisionist history to avoid putting "hero" John Lennon in a bad light I guess.
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I think this perported episode is misrepresented. It is documented, however, that in 1964/65 when the band were cute moptops, they all got terrible nerves before the shows. It is confirmed that at least once John had spur-of-the-moment sex (standing up, with the woman against a wall, no less!) in the wings, in full Beatle suit, minutes before going on stage. Apparently, it did the trick and he felt much better afterwards! I highly doubt it was rape.