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Post by JoJo on Nov 8, 2003 18:42:27 GMT
Does anyone have this famous picture, but a more recent possibly doctored version? I'm not embedding this in the message, because it is HUGE, 1.1 megabytes. It would spill over the sides of the browser space or get resized automatically, so please no one else get tempted unless you crop it perhaps. The quality wasn't good, so I scanned at 200 dpi to improve it as much as possible. There is no date, BUT the other side has an article about John Lennon, and mentioning his age as 23. So this places the Beatles photo at 1963-1964 obviously. web.newsguy.com/junkpile/famouspic.html
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Post by joejoe on Nov 9, 2003 17:21:33 GMT
I believe that photo was on the sleeve of the "I Want To Hold Your Hand" single in the United States.
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Post by JakesBrie on Nov 10, 2003 0:14:48 GMT
The picture on that website looks more like a fairly good painting of the original photo, although it may just be the quality of the transfer. But, yes, it was the sleeve for "I Want to Hold Your Hand" which I still have.
Brie
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Post by Curious on Nov 10, 2003 17:27:19 GMT
I posted a doctored version, minus Paul's cigarette, a few weeks back. Here's the picture.
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Post by TheWatusi on Nov 10, 2003 17:55:59 GMT
Is the photo doctored? can someone make an animation?
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Post by gracemer on Nov 10, 2003 19:13:39 GMT
Look at Paul's bushy eyebrows in that photo. James Paul's weren't like that.
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Post by JoJo on Nov 11, 2003 5:03:47 GMT
Thanks curious, that's a big help (as it turns out it would seem) Ok, here we go again, the undoctored newspaper clipping of 1963 or 1964 beside Curious's no cigarette version. Assuming I got the cropping right, and if not it probably is only a pixel or two. According to the "image size" information from Photoshop, the old version is 15 pixels wider than the doctored version. Left pic = old version, right pic = doctored version. Old version: width = 310 pixels, height = 453 pixels doctored: width = 295 pixels, height = 453 pixels Well, whatcha think??
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Post by Curious on Nov 11, 2003 10:32:50 GMT
It looks a little slimmed down...
In fact, it's the whole picture that's been narrowed, not just Paul's face. Possibly just a case of attempting to fit the image, as large as possible, in its entirety, onto the calendar page.
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Post by JoJo on Nov 11, 2003 17:01:29 GMT
It looks a little slimmed down... In fact, it's the whole picture that's been narrowed, not just Paul's face. Possibly just a case of attempting to fit the image, as large as possible, in its entirety, onto the calendar page. Ok well it turns out you are correct, BUT: I did the same thing to Ringo's pic and it seems while he is slimmed down, it's not to the same degree. Have a look: (old on left, new on right) For the Paul comparison: Old version: width = 310 pixels, height = 453 pixels doctored: width = 295 pixels, height = 453 pixels (295/310) X100 means doctored version is 95.16 percent the width of the old version For the Ringo comparison: Old version: width = 335 pixels, height = 458 pixels doctored: width = 329 pixels, height = 458 pixels (329/335) X100 means doctored version is 98.2 percent the width of the old version. I guess I'm not sure if a conclusion can be drawn from this, like they slimmed the whole thing, AND slimmed Paul just a little bit more than everything else in the picture. The difference in percentages is small, admittedly. I just wanted to be fair and address this issue..
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Post by JoJo on Nov 11, 2003 19:20:56 GMT
Trying my hand here at the animated gif thing. I'm new at this, just an experiment so here ya go. Give 'em a minute to load of course.
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Post by JoJo on Nov 11, 2003 21:58:25 GMT
Now that I've done this once with my own hands, I really understand what it is that Sun King does. Especially with Ringo I can see that his face is essentially unchanged, just a little stretching. Paul too to a certain extent, except his ears look like they are bending towards his head. But Faul/Paul... it's a cross fade between 2 different people, no question.
Software: To fade between 2 pics, Slide Show Movie maker, it outputs the fade to an AVI file. It's free and easy to find on the web.
To convert the AVI to animated gif, ULEAD Gif Animator, a 15 day demo, so I may have to pay, we'll see, maybe there's a free program out there. Also not hard to find.
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DeeT
Contributor
Posts: 18
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Post by DeeT on Nov 11, 2003 23:46:10 GMT
Wow, get back Jojo! Great job with the animations. That's a pretty good "smoking gun" so far as doctored pictures is concerned. What did you use to make sure the proportions were preserved between the two fellows in each picture? Would it be possible to make an animation of the entire photo, trying to make as much line up as possible and then seeing what happens to Paul and Ringo?
A fascinated... -DeeT
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Post by SunKing on Nov 12, 2003 0:24:59 GMT
JoJo: Very, very good! The original animations of "60IF" site were made with "Tracer" that is an extension of identix API in a medical examiner laboratory. They are STILL the main reference. The others were made by me with the same criteria with Jasc's Paint Shop Pro + Animation Shop. There is a "try" version to downoload from Jasc site. My legacy is now....into your hands....
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Post by JoJo on Nov 12, 2003 3:05:57 GMT
Other than the software I mentioned, the first part of the process is I crop the respective photos to where I'm looking at identical borders. I use whatever reference points are handy, a piece of hair sticking out, a shirt collar, etc. this is the most "rough" part, not exact to the point where it is an exact science perhaps. My scan and the calendar scan have different DPI's, but I then resize with photoshop so that the cropped phtos have a match on height but then you see the width doesn't match (by a lot!) All else being equal, the part of the equation that's left should match, if the cropping is right, you see? (if the pictures are identical) If my cropping is a little off, and if so it's only a pixel or two, tops, then you would see a little tiny difference between pics. Not the obvious shrinking/expanding you see in the Paul pic. You see how Ringo is just a little off? Partly perhaps to error in cropping (which is very small) added to the much slighter distortion of his pic compared to Paul's. The picture of Paul is way too distorted to blame on cropping error. Just look at the stills beside each other. I'll see about the whole picture, on another day. (I have to call it a day for now, gotta work in the morning) Sun King that's a lot of responsibility! I'm just trying to share some work, and I wanted to see how it was done. What better way than to do an animation myself? I highly recommend it!
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Post by TheWatusi on Nov 12, 2003 4:42:47 GMT
oh, simply beautiful! the doctoring of paul compared to the the slimming down of ringo are obvious, thank you.
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Post by beatled on Dec 11, 2004 14:29:25 GMT
I guess Jilli gave this one a bumpity bump..
You can find vintage vs non vintage of old pictures like this, and yes you can see changes at times. Of course you can argue it was an issue of "fitting to page" or some such, but this one is unique (or perhaps not) in that Paul seems singled out for a noticable change.
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Post by abbey on Dec 11, 2004 15:13:55 GMT
The reissue of the Ed Sullivan footage on DVD is especially telling. You can see that they have slimmed down Paul's face & made it longer. They added shadowing around his lower face/ neck area to accomplish this ! They changed the shape of his eyebrows also ! He just looks weird & NOT like James Paul in, lets say, the Rain video !
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Post by BeatlePaul on Dec 11, 2004 15:33:47 GMT
I guess Jilli gave this one a bumpity bump.. You can find vintage vs non vintage of old pictures like this, and yes you can see changes at times. Of course you can argue it was an issue of "fitting to page" or some such, but this one is unique (or perhaps not) in that Paul seems singled out for a noticable change. The evidence is that in the same picture Ringo's look DOES'T change. We are in presence of the BIGGEST "doctoring documents operation" in the history.
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Post by Jilli on Dec 12, 2004 3:49:22 GMT
what happened was I made a comment about Pauls cigarette disappearing on the second photo and realized someone had already said that ....so trying not to appear stupid I tried to erase my comment only to realize it was already too late and left the blank spot which was worse Hahahahaha
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Post by PaulBearer on Dec 12, 2004 7:39:59 GMT
Speaking of DVDs, I bought the DVD of The Beatles USA tour recently. Does anyone know if this has been doctored?
I've had to take it back and get a refund because there was a fault in it from about after they turn up in Washington until part way through Miami. It just won't play and has to skip over most of it. I had the DVD replaced but the replacement had the same fault. Has anyone else experienced this or is it just a certain batch?
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