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Post by ReallyReallyDead on May 31, 2005 23:48:53 GMT
I rented A Hard Days Night on DVD , and watched it. I noticed some scenes which were exactly James Paul, and the majority I wasn't sure (probably doctored). But there were some which were certainly Faul himself! Especially during the concert scene. One profile shot I noticed that "Paul" had abnormally small and Faulish ears! And then a front shot, which was just "Paul" against a white background, had the same Faul ears and looked exactly like Faul. I can post frame grabs soon. Any comments?
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jun 3, 2005 2:11:24 GMT
Anything on DVD is likely to have been "doctored".
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 3, 2005 7:11:22 GMT
I see mainly William, JMO. The concert moment at the end, though, seems to retain JP in a few long shots---a side shot or two, maybe a shot from upstage looking into the audience. Hard to tell, but again, that is my impression. Hard Days Night is a very solid, cohesive property that supports Paul never having been replaced---it's the jewel in the crown.
Help!......frankly, IMO, has a number of telling spots.........
I always get the feeling, in Beatlemovies, that somehow, Paul is the "set apart" one, always directed a little off to the side, like, it's the Three Musketeers, and then independent D'Artagnon Paul in his own little world. It's like, in a spot or two, he's around, but not really "with" everybody else.......Part of that is the frequent occurence of the other three in tandem while a seperate shot of Paul seems to dove-tail in, like, here's where Paul is in the scene, everybody......hard to explain......I think that kind of vibe might likely go back to the early days, as well.
IMO, George seems "camera" bored, like he is neither afraid nor anxious about being in the lens. I think he disliked "putting on."
To me, John looks a little blase about being in front of a camera, but still secure and comfortable enough in his skin to transmit that basic confidence.
May lightening not strike me----William is really the actor in the bunch---transmitting a lot of "play" into and with the camera. He knows how the camera is taking him in; he knows how to use his agile face to impart "direction".........he does it too well.
John and George put very little acting energy int Help!--George is lovably stilted, but believable because a Beatle WOULD be that way-----
William/Paul betrays one thing about his real inner self--again, just my opinion but he betrays a too advanced understanding of drama.
His face and gestures are very specific, very clear, very----typical for someone who has been in show biz--- who has done acting, and sketch humor. It shows that he knew what he was doing. He is making deliberate choices like a professional actor.
When would Paul McCartney have learned all that?
My point almost falls apart here: Ringo did well with the camera from the get-go, and who showed him? Well, I dunno......
George was very honest on camera, and very simple. John was frequently blase. In many of their scenes they seemed passive to the lens.
Ringo, too is sometimes neutral on screen.
But William always puts something into the scene.
In the scene in Help! where Paul was dancing with Eleanor Bron in the Indian restaurant----I see two actors there, acting together. It's really beautifully played----(you see, I think that the close-ups were re-shot with William).
I think that Sun King really liked that scene. He thought that it was all still with James Paul----and, the "matching" there is some consummate work------"matching" with 2 or 3 long shots showing James Paul....(there's a little continuity thing with the restaurant patrons that makes me wonder...)
But what I think Sun King really liked abut that scene was that the acting between billy and Ms.Bron is really very, very good. It puts James Paul in a great light--but, really--I suspect that JP's acting abilities may not have equalled his musical ones.........no offense meant.........but, the real actor in the movie is billy. And SK instinctively recognizes real acting talent.
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Post by goldberry on Jun 3, 2005 8:05:53 GMT
Has anyone ever considered that Bill might've been around with them before Paul died.. perhaps sharing the load with Paul... just a thought...
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 3, 2005 8:44:30 GMT
Has anyone ever considered that Bill might've been around with them before Paul died.. perhaps sharing the load with Paul... just a thought... Yes. Several times. In fact, I've even envisioned James Paul "handing" it off to him.... "....you say goodbye, and I say hello.......hello hello! I dont know WHY you say goodbye, I say hello...." I secretly wonder--was there yet ANOTHER person--bass player, writer, again, a little older than JP, maybe William's age, or somewhere in between--who wrote some Lennon/McCartney tunes....standard practice, buying tunes and putting someone else's name on it....... I have had a thought lately I think--I have finally gone crazy. That maybe the writer of "Last Train to Clarkesville" ALSO wrote "Paperback Writer"-----and this phantom writer was around the Beatles---and participated in RubberSoul and Revolver---and then a contract problem-he leaves--he goes to America. He turns up as a ghost writer for the Monkees, who've been in the works early in 1966--because Paul was already out of the picture--and this person played some bass for the Beatles...... Early 1966 it seems the Beatles were already covering for something... Question is----who played the summer concert tour in America Paul? Or a replacement--a touring Paul........ Did they have a ghost writer? (Not Paul) Did they lose him? Is the ghost writer the in-between Paul? Lennon said "I worried because initially, Paul was rather weak (on bass, etc.) and how that would effect us..... Wonder if: Lennon asked Paul to leave---perhaps he wanted to anyway. The first replacement does only about a year. This is maybe the person who dies? Paul no. 2--a strong writer, a good studio musician, he is the "sunglasses" Paul......he passes on Original Paul, then, is still alive somewhere with a different ID. The name:McCartney--a franchise. Moved twice. JAMES PAUL MCCARTNEY has 18 letters. 9 + 9 909 The one AFTER 909....... Move over once, move over twice..... So, maybe there was JP, the composer first replacement in sunglasses, and then William. And just maybe: one or two more paid doubles with NO musical talent---just good at looking sorta like James Paul....... It's all theater, friends. Step right up, step right up. Get your tickets now to ride the midway....... Have we all stayed to long at the fair?......... ONe last crazy possibility: JPM was not a Beatle originally. Maybe he was a staff writer for EMI, etc., and a very good one. Maybe he was getting older, or reticent to perform. Maybe they found a young guy (the Eskimo wide cheekboned guy) to "BE" James Paul McCartney back in 1963..... Maybe he became a liability, so they fired him. Maybe the real, older JPM joined the Beatles for the two middle rercords.... Maybe HE was killed somehow........and then William, who had been in the Peter Sellers/Monty Python/Old Vic/BBC acting circle was conveniently available to "make another Paul", to "keep Paul alive"--because it was keeping Paul's publishing alive.....because Maybe its always been all about the publishing......... And, maybe the Monkees were the same thing. Singing the real, hidden, but deceased Paul's music. Maybe there was A LOT of copywritten music to publish and release.......... If there NEVER had really been an actual person named "Paul Mcacrtney", then his family is fiction, and there was never anyone to keep quiet. Maybe there never was a secret to keep EXCEPT that there NEVER WAS A PAUL MCCARTNEY, as such, to begin with..... A made up alias to cover a series of 3 talented men who each gave the Beatles something different (1) curb appeal (2) good songs (3) a new direction and a ambition. George, John----not so ambitious after 1966. William----ambition con firenze........ Oh, gotta go, my sleeping pill just zonked my last survinininging brain cell.
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 3, 2005 8:50:27 GMT
;Daddendum to last laboredpost:
of course, McCartney has a well known brother, and other relatives, so, there is ample on record that establishes a real McCartney family........I mean, I thought maybe Jim was just a creation of the PR, but he was totally real, so my last 2 theorizes are sinking deep in the mire.
As I sink into the covers to snore like a baboon.
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Post by goldberry on Jun 3, 2005 17:11:59 GMT
Lennon asked Paul to join his band because he saw that he had talent... I think Paul McCartney was the singer/songwriter and the one we see consistently up to... well... somewhere on and off until end of 1966. If Paul didn't have the talent to make it to begin with, John wouldn't have asked and they woulda kicked him out like they did Pete...
Not sure on HDN.. but Help, paperback writer and rain.. even the MBE acceptance.. I kinda see Bill. So it's one of either two things... Paul is just Paul and he is simply not photogenic. or Something was up with Paul during 65/66 so they had a replacement during that period on and off to fill in when Paul couldn't (ie; the film clips, appearances) but Paul did the interviews and the tours.. then sometime at the end of 66, Paul dies and the replacement carries on. I've kinda moved past the car crash.. I'm thinking maybe there was something wrong with him.. (no not explosive IBS) perhaps something emotionally...
"One day you'll look to see I've gone"
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Post by Red Lion on Jun 3, 2005 17:46:12 GMT
Perplexed have you been replaced by...Scatterdome??
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Post by TotalInformation on Jun 3, 2005 20:11:54 GMT
When would Paul McCartney have learned all that?
He was wise beyond his years, the genius prodigy of the deliberately engineered Liverpool musical mileu, burdened by esoteric knowledge even moreso than his bandmates.
It wouldn't have been a problem.
You've made the case for Help! reshoots, but haven't quite done so yet for AHDN. However, do recall that AHDN was "digitally remastered" before its rerelease about 10 years ago...
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Post by TotalInformation on Jun 3, 2005 20:15:09 GMT
Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart wrote Last Train to Clarksville. There's no mystery there. They even teamed up with JOnes and Dolenz as a group in theirown right in the late 70s -- link
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 4, 2005 0:24:08 GMT
Lennon asked Paul to join his band because he saw that he had talent... I think Paul McCartney was the singer/songwriter and the one we see consistently up to... well... somewhere on and off until end of 1966. If Paul didn't have the talent to make it to begin with, John wouldn't have asked and they woulda kicked him out like they did Pete... Not sure on HDN.. but Help, paperback writer and rain.. even the MBE acceptance.. I kinda see Bill. So it's one of either two things... Paul is just Paul and he is simply not photogenic. or Something was up with Paul during 65/66 so they had a replacement during that period on and off to fill in when Paul couldn't (ie; the film clips, appearances) but Paul did the interviews and the tours.. then sometime at the end of 66, Paul dies and the replacement carries on. I've kinda moved past the car crash.. I'm thinking maybe there was something wrong with him.. (no not explosive IBS) perhaps something emotionally... "One day you'll look to see I've gone" 'He blew his mind out...." is what Lennon sang--that's always struck me. Lennon had such a unique way of phrasing his thoughts. 2 things---whoever "he" is, he did it to himself.....he was responsible for what his fate was. And, the result of his action was at least "ruining his mind, maybe permanent impairment." Though Brian Wilson is back, and going gang busters, and really being a creative artist again, we all know he spent many years in self-imposed exile, When he was infrequently seen during that time, he always seemed to have "blown his mind out." But he isn't dead. And, though a bit slower from the experience, he is functioning now miraculously well. (I was on stage with him once in 2000 in a summer concert; I was just doing some orchestral keyboard with the first part of the concert with full symphony, I was not part of his band entourage. I was present thruout the full rehearsal day and evening performance, and it was all marvelous. He was a little slow to speak, but sang all the old music extremely well. PLayed some nice keyboard fills. You couldn't really tell anything ever happened when he sang, he sang beautifully. When he performed "In My Room" I got very nostalgic and choked up a bit.........) But, Lennon may have meant more in ADITL. If he was truly singing about Tara Browne, we know Tara died, so, he meant "dead." He may have meant Paul......we just dont know..... If Paul had some emotionally issues, mental issues, itwas well covered. PR in the 60's---there was a code of writing that nowadays is ignored. Back then you presented everyone in a good light. Smart business practice----sell the celebrity, you sell more magazines. Except for the yellow, sleazy tabloid stuff. They make more money on shock and humiliation......... I know of no mention of JP ever having any mental issues...... He might have. Perhaps he was Romeo to Sylvie's tragic Juliette. Possible. The Capulets and the Montagues. The double funeral that embarrassed both families......... Interesting. Maybe there was a covert feud back then between two rival "families" that led to a tragic loss........
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 4, 2005 0:49:24 GMT
Lennon asked Paul to join his band because he saw that he had talent... I think Paul McCartney was the singer/songwriter and the one we see consistently up to... well... somewhere on and off until end of 1966. If Paul didn't have the talent to make it to begin with, John wouldn't have asked and they woulda kicked him out like they did Pete... Not sure on HDN.. but Help, paperback writer and rain.. even the MBE acceptance.. I kinda see Bill. So it's one of either two things... Paul is just Paul and he is simply not photogenic. Good point Goldberry, good reminder. John and G. Martin both would have done away with Paul at the get-go. Clearly, by '63, he was going full steam. John's reference may have spoke of the earliesy tear or two, '58 or '59 maybe? In five years, a dedicated music freak can make remarkable progress, especially at his age at the time. Photogenic? No, he was definitely very photogenic. I remember the reaction of the girls in first and third grades.....I saw him on TV and thought, "he is very handsome." But, what do you know when you're just seven years old....... IMO, most of HardDaysNight is William. There maybe a fleeting shot of Paul, face half covered, or turned, or in shadow, or way distant. Everything clear, everything in close-up is billy. THere was one brief scene in a hallway, I think they are getting ready to perform, and Ringo has just been found, where there is a teeling continuity thing, but the shot I think that may be of JP has his face half covered. I have to rent it again..... I will say----I have seen a newer DVD, and a 1996 VHS, and there are a few frame weirdnesses on the VHS that do not appear on the DVD. I'd have to get both again to comment------I will when I can. I initially believed the opening scene with Paul in a beard disguise, with his "grampa", at the train station, was JP--but, no. It's some brilliant make-up and "actualizing" by billy. So many scenes---Paul is, again, temporarily NOT with the other three. And the scene where they are running crazy in the field. We already know that Paul was not present that day for shooting, due to a "hangover" (!), and it's Lester or Spinetti or someone else, running for him.......... During which round of shooting? A fleeting thought: If only a car model year 1967 or 1968 could be found on a few frames, unnoticed by the editors, driving past in the background.......or a building or a watch......that would be mind blowing. Or a tiny news story printed slyly on the back of, say, a newspaper.....about an event that didn't happen till 1967.......or, a reference to a current event or TV show that was unknown till 1967... or, like a picture of Ringo from the White Album hung on the wall behind an actor in a scene from HDN often forgotten about...... Oh, yeah, there is one.
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Post by plastic paul on Jun 4, 2005 1:07:56 GMT
But what about the possibility that was said about it being a contemporary double ie. it wsn't JPM but it was all filmed in '64 that would be pretty shocking too, like u said about JPM never being a real guy It did make me wonder, perhaps thats just fantasy, but (and i think i'm gonna have to make it my motto due to the amount of times i say it, and everyone else for that matter! ;D) knowing what i know about this whole subject, the old cliche, anything is possible!
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Post by beatled on Jun 4, 2005 1:22:36 GMT
or, like a picture of Ringo from the White Album hung on the wall behind an actor in a scene from HDN often forgotten about...... Oh, yeah, there is one. Huh!?!?! Would you direct me there please kind sir? Oh and is this the weirdness on the VHS version you mentioned? I can get it and cap it...
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Post by TotalInformation on Jun 4, 2005 1:26:16 GMT
'He blew his mind out...." is what Lennon sang--that's always struck me. Lennon had such a unique way of phrasing his thoughts.
You are overlooking the narrative frame of the song. That is not Lennon expressing his own thought, but rather the thought of the newspaper he's reading.
This is likely the Wednesday morning paper that didn't come. At first, the official story was set to be that Paul in a drug-crzaed stupor killed himself in a car wreck. This would have been what the newspaper had reported, the newspaper Lennon is reading, but was never distributed. That doesn't make it the truth. I have long argued that the car crash scene found on that neverending bloody tuesday afternoon was a staged event; the culmination of weeks of intrigue involving Paul & Sylvie on the continent.
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Post by plastic paul on Jun 4, 2005 1:28:11 GMT
Yeh i was wondering about that as well. Although, i'm gonna have to watch my remastered DVD of AHDN again, i don't think i've watched it whilst looking for evidence of PID.
It could prove very interesting............
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Post by TotalInformation on Jun 4, 2005 1:37:02 GMT
But what about the possibility that was said about it being a contemporary double
the precipitating event for the identity games, use of doubles, ie the Sunshine Supermen's Operation Yellow Submarine, was the trip at the DORIS DAY house in August 65.
So you may see a double (Stanshall?) in the promo films from the last year of JPM's life, but on other things you're looking at digital remastering or in the case of Help! at least, reshoots.
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Post by TotalInformation on Jun 4, 2005 1:39:31 GMT
Or a tiny news story printed slyly on the back of, say, a newspaper.....about an event that didn't happen till 1967...
I thought you had previously claimed to have already found such evidence in Help!?
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 4, 2005 3:08:21 GMT
I remember looking for itin the scene where the BEatles in disguise go to the airport......a lot of newspaper holding people seated around the waiting area....I remember talking about it----I can't remember!
Also, in HDN, the beginning Paul seated with granpa at the train station.
But---there is a web site mentioning the shot of Ringo on the wall in HDN. It has the screen grab compared with an actual White Album shot.......hard to telll--looks similar but blurry.
This web site is the same one where the discussion of "Faul's willie", is it, or isn't it, from MMT, in the romp of the "Fool on the Hill" in the trendy dark long coat (that makes William look 6'3"-though he isn't). If that site is still up, its on one of the pages. I cant find it right now.........
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Post by goldberry on Jun 4, 2005 3:21:00 GMT
The only mention of Paul having any type of stressful thing.. was when he was found in his hotel room vomiting violently from tension, I can't recall if it was 65 or 66 tour. But vomiting violently from tension.. could be severe anxiety, which goes hand in hand with depression. Or it could be twisted truth and he was vomiting violently from being very very drunk!
As for the photogenic thing, even the most beautiful people can be un-photogenic.
I remember the picture in HDN.. I always though it looked like Bill's pic, it's on the web somewhere, if I find it I'll post the link.
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Post by beatled on Jun 4, 2005 4:30:32 GMT
Hmmm, well to be on the safe side I'll go rent the VHS version soon, last I knew it was still available at a nearby store. Could be a red herring, especially since the "Bill's Willy" business seems not too..definitive..
But a frame that clearly shows something like the WA poster? Would be quite amazing, I suppose it could be spinmastered, oh it was a joke, just like all the other "jokes". Will put on my to do list..
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 4, 2005 4:45:39 GMT
Hmmm, well to be on the safe side I'll go rent the VHS version soon, last I knew it was still available at a nearby store. Could be a red herring, especially since the "Bill's Willy" business seems not too..definitive.. But a frame that clearly shows something like the WA poster? Would be quite amazing, I suppose it could be spinmastered, oh it was a joke, just like all the other "jokes". Will put on my to do list.. As far as "Fool on the Hill", I don't give the idea any credence. We are seeing only clothes, maybe a belt, a pocket, layers of clothing---there's nothing to that rumor. But, at the site, there were other anomalies listed and some were interesting. I'll try to find it.
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 4, 2005 4:49:35 GMT
Perplexed have you been replaced by...Scatterdome?? Yow, I see what you mean. I am morphing in his direction, aren't I? I am taping a little piece of paper to my monitor as a reminder: "Shorten, and don't get too outlandish."
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Post by Perplexed on Jun 4, 2005 8:47:36 GMT
This is the amazing miracle: How'd they ever do it? IMO, it's the same person. Whoever did that LSD interview is the one we see mainly in Help!. But, maybe this is the other fellow?....
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Post by BeatlePaul on Jun 4, 2005 9:17:32 GMT
JAMES PAUL MCCARTNEY 1963-1966 HE NEVER CHANGED LOOK. All the rest is just D O C T O R I N G.
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