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Post by abbey on Jul 24, 2004 7:01:54 GMT
Taxman, you lucky, lucky man to have really met them. That was always my dream; but, alas, it is never to be!
Paul was a very, very talented man, as were the other Beatles, of course. It is too bad the world was deprived of him before his time.
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Post by Delta on Jul 24, 2004 8:41:17 GMT
Paul, though, had a couple of stand out features: His face was perfectly symetrical and was complemented by his new hair do, one that was sweeping this nation, and his voice. what do you mean by "his face was perfectly symetrical". weren't his eyes slightly offset to eachother? and what about his eyebrowes?
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Post by The Taxman on Jul 24, 2004 16:53:31 GMT
Delta what does slightly "offset" mean? I can tell you his eyebrows were neat and trimmed, not like Fauls. PaulBearer, I didn't know he was on stage with Dusty. I had always been a fan of hers for so long and missed that one, not being a fan of awards shows in general, not even watching the Grammies even when the Beatles are (again) nominated. Since the Grammies never recognized Elvis...well, you know what I mean. There is so much and so little of this story. I met them in Washington,DC, in February of 1964, when they came to play their first ever American date, at what is now called the Washington Coliseum. Then it was very small ice arena that the Ice Capades played in every time they came to DC. Mind you the only people who attended this were of the early '60's crowd who had no intention of screaming their brains out. Some did and there was a bit of frenzy but nothing like later. I went to see them and knew I could get in close so I did. They were, remarkably, the same height, or close to it. Paul appeared to me to have a "perfectly" symmetrical face. Nothing is perfect, of course but his face was not lopsided or uneven to the unpracticed eye. His eyes were brown and his hair was medium brown not dark dark like this Faul. I can state that this is NOT the same man that I met. To encapsulate everything for you here: I had no "fan devotion" going on because there was no such thing going on here at the time. The Beatles were nothing more than a curiosity then and we all thought would die out or just hit the back pages. John and Paul and George had some standout features besides their fun music: they were all very nice to be around, they were all dressed very well, their haircuts, of course, were daring but quite likeable, and they were terribly CHARISMATIC. The really amazing thing is that they were super professional and looked and acted like they had been born to this role. Paul had some things that are quite apart from Faul, and they threw me right away: Paul's voice is very strong and bright for his apparent breathy softness, ready and very much on the note, not sliding or varying in any way. Faul isn't even close to the precision that Paul had. Faul hair is wavy and super dark and Paul's hair was lighter, not by much, but enough, and lay straight. Faul is obviously much taller than the others and stands out on that alone as a replacement. I don't know if anyone is ever going to get the truth from the very person who could say plenty about all this: Cilla Black. She has been a known close friend and associate of the fellows since the Cavern days. They started her with specially written songs for her alone, Epstein signed her and could have made a fortune on her had he lived, she becoming one of Britiain's reigning stars for the last 41 years. Yes, Epstein is dead, for sure, but WHEN did he die is the question, with Paul in a botched kidnapping or later at his own home? For many years, here, Paul was the stand out of the group and made a huge impression because of his talent and his cherubic look. The change came with Sgt. Pepper and many fell away since they knew, with deep instinct, that this was not their closely held Paul McCartney. The one thing that stood out for all who were at that show that night: they were HUGELY CHARISMATIC, drawing people to them like magnets. Their talent was plain, even though the papers the next day siad they were completely untalented, their voices were strong and they just looked great! I did study them as the years went on just to see what was going to happen and where they would go as artists. My instinct was that Sgt. Pepper was, although great work, a cover and a clue (obviously plenty of clues) and that John and the others wanted badly to be able to tell the world the truth and get it over with but knew they couldn't.
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Post by The Taxman on Jul 24, 2004 19:25:57 GMT
I don't think we'll ever know anything about the continuing relationship with Jane . I know that the only way to get her or anyone to cooperate with this would be a pile of money and the rest were willing but I don't think she was. She has, for the most part, disappeared over the decades, not having anything to do with the fellows for her own reasons.
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Post by The Taxman on Jul 24, 2004 19:31:10 GMT
Replying to Gracemer: I would peg Paul's height at 5'10' and the other two at about the same. I had a pair of boots of my own on that night so I know we stood about the same height off the floor, perhaps they being about half an inch or a bit more taller, but NOT the height that Faul reaches.
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Post by TotalInformation on Jul 25, 2004 0:02:47 GMT
I met them in Washington,DC, in February of 1964, when they came to play their first ever American date, at what is now called the Washington Coliseum. Then it was very small ice arenaBy "met" them, do do you mean you had a pass to the press conference? Kewl. the only people who attended this were of the early '60's crowd who had no intention of screaming their brains out. Some did and there was a bit of frenzy but nothing like later.I've seen this concert rebroadcast on television, and the screaming was loud enough that it was hard to hear the numbers! I do suppose it generally got louder as time went on... I went to see them and knew I could get in close so I did. They were, remarkably, the same height, or close to it.Don't discount the possibility Paul was wearing lifts in his shoes at the time. they were terribly CHARISMATIC. The really amazing thing is that they were super professional and looked and acted like they had been born to this role.Let me ask you a rather esoteric question. Charisma aside, did any of the people at the Coliseum -- and this would apply more the show(s? Were there two?) than to the press conference -- seem *unnaturally* euphoric? You may be aware that some researchers suspect Beatles concerts were used as testing ground for electromagnetic mood manipulation technologies. (For instance, here are a couple stories about anomalies pointing to such phenomenon at Phish concerts: LINK and LINK2.)
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Post by Delta on Jul 25, 2004 0:14:59 GMT
Delta what does slightly "offset" mean? ooh, i'm sorry. i meant that, judging from various pictures, his left eye apperared to be positioned slightly lower on his face than his right eye.
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Post by LUCY on Jul 25, 2004 0:50:54 GMT
[ You may be aware that some researchers suspect Beatles concerts were used as testing ground for electromagnetic mood manipulation technologies. (For instance, here are a couple stories about anomalies pointing to such phenomenon at Phish concerts: LINK and LINK2.) Very interesting TI. any other links on this?
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Post by gracemer on Jul 25, 2004 6:35:14 GMT
ooh, i'm sorry. i meant that, judging from various pictures, his left eye apperared to be positioned slightly lower on his face than his right eye. True. Didn't we toss around the idea that Paul may have had an episode of Bell's palsy?
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Post by gracemer on Jul 25, 2004 6:50:08 GMT
Regarding the link provided by TotalInformation, I attended a Beatle's concert in the summer of 1964 when they played the Indiana State Fair. There was an energy in the auditorium, but I wouldn't describe it as being more powerful than an exciting professional sporting event. The screaming was horrendous--I could barely hear the music and I had a good seat in about the 13th row. Their performance wasn't very long.
The word teenager was in use before the Beatles because I remember the term was in use during the Elvis years. Perhaps the author meant the term wasn't in use before the advent of rock. The word "cool" was also used before the Beatles. No big deal, but the man makes some mistakes.
It was a very interesting article. Thanks TotalInfo.
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Post by abbey on Jul 25, 2004 7:13:20 GMT
You are right, gracemer, the word teenager came about during the 50's with Elivs' music. The same with "cool".
We did kick around the fact that Paul might have had Bell's Palsy, which is no surprise with the stress they were under. They were literally worked to death and even the concerts weren't planned with any consideration for the guys need to recover from 'Jet Lag". No wonder Paul severed from a disease related to stress. It shows he was more uptight than his interviews and photos let on.
I feel sorry for the stress and all that each and every one of The Beatles had to go through.
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Post by gracemer on Jul 25, 2004 7:15:48 GMT
I feel sorry for the stress and all that each and every one of The Beatles had to go through. Indeed. Their living conditions in Germany were wretched and must have taken a toll. But even the first class accomodations they had later on couldn't make up for their hectic schedule and lack of sleep and proper nutrition. The fun of being successful probably wore off pretty fast.
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Post by BillyJones on Jul 25, 2004 14:54:57 GMT
gracemer, actually, it did... Chris
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Post by TotalInformation on Jul 25, 2004 19:37:22 GMT
the man makes some mistakes.
It was a very interesting article
I had provided that link to the Rense site for the first article on the Phish concert. I think the 'Satanic British Invasion' article posted on that page has its own thread elsewhere on the forum...
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Post by abbey on Jul 25, 2004 19:37:38 GMT
I remember reading that when they came home after their first date in Hamburg, Paul was stick thin and white as a ghost. What ghastly living conditions: only cold water, very little light, filthy. Surprising they didn't all collapse.
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Post by TotalInformation on Jul 25, 2004 19:44:25 GMT
Indiana State Fair. There was an energy in the auditorium, but I wouldn't describe it as being more powerful than an exciting professional sporting event
I'm particularly interested in the Washington concert since it seems one of the most likely of all the Beatles' American dates where something like that could have been tested.
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Post by The Taxman on Jul 25, 2004 20:40:45 GMT
For Delta: Actually it was quite striking that Paul's face at a straight in look was just about as completely symmetrical as I've ever seen. This one of the reasons why Faul struck me right away as a complete fake, height and skinniness, too dark hari, hair falling in opposite direction, etc. Even when I heard the first disclaimers on Faul's sudden imperfections in facial countenance, that he had been injured in a motorcycle accident, I still didn't believe it. For me, I couldn't then and can't now see an offset look.
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Post by The Taxman on Jul 25, 2004 20:54:11 GMT
For Bill and Chris and gracemer: Yes, as both Paul and John said almost immediately after they were sealed in stone and likely to be the reigning stars for decades if they held: John was asked why he hadn't gotten some aid to see properly and he gritted his teeth at the reporter and said he "hadn't had a lot of time to do it, now, have I?" Paul at one point said he wasn't sleeping a great deal and the reporter took it that he meant he was partying all the time...not so. Travel and lack of sleep, eating on the run and having to be "on" all the time. Total: this is an excellent positioning of this hypothesis...inasmuch as John has a dosier at the CIA and I believe that this was the time of the heavier experimentation from government sources (ala President Ford paying off the widow of a man who killed himself while on government applied LSD, without his knowledge of course, and other experiments of the same sordid type). I don't doubt that that show may have been a good place to start to work on the Beatles and their audiences, if they should just happen to last. It was the dawn of a New Age, wasn't it?
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Post by gracemer on Jul 25, 2004 21:10:19 GMT
I don't doubt that that show may have been a good place to start to work on the Beatles and their audiences, if they should just happen to last. It was the dawn of a New Age, wasn't it? Well, you were there. What was it like? I stated above what my summer '64 concert was like. Very exciting, but I don't think it fell into the "mind control" category. Tell us about your experience.
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Post by BillyJones on Jul 26, 2004 15:21:02 GMT
Taxman - Can you please share with us all that you can remember Chris
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Post by Delta on Jul 26, 2004 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by The Taxman on Jul 26, 2004 23:13:35 GMT
I have to say that screaming or frenzied teenagers mean nothing to me so I'm not looking to the audience for some sort of altered or "new" experience when I remember back that far. I was a kid, to be sure, and there was an excitement in the place but it didn't feel quite right for me. I wasn't a fan, I wasn't a fellow traveler, in fact not caring a wit about them above my usual curiosity about new personalities. I like many other had seen many come and go and this group threatened to be the same. The main reason for that is that they were what many in DC considered a dog house. Even if they had played Shady Grove in Gaithersburg, Md., just up the road, they would have had some class. Most of the reason for my curiosity was the idea that Englishmen just weren't going to get anywhere in America, or so I thought. But there had to be a crack in the wall and this was it. At that point I had heard of some of the English groups but was still unimpressed. The Arena crowd that night didn't seem, to me, to be out to help develope a legend, but simply there to see what was a really attractive group who dressed brilliantly and looked fabulous. I had heard some of their stuff and didn't like "I Wanna Hold YOur Hand" at all, and that was about it. One of the wierder things was that suddenly everyone was in love with the Liverpool accent, which was nothing but northcountry to me, being that my mother and grandmother and grandfather had the same accent. I have to say that I did take to John right away because he got the name of the town he was in right away...no stumbling or fumbling for the sound of "Washington". Very confident and clear and he established himself as the leader from the start. Quite frankly, I thought the whole thing was a waste of time at the time, but now is more curious than I'd have dared to think back then. The country was just coming off the assasination of JFK at the time and I suppose they were perfect for distraction. I don't want to sound like I disliked them or anything but I'm still trying to sort out my feelings about the whole thing. As they grew and then became the monsters they became, things did change for me. Still in all, the Arena was forgettable is all I can say...please don't think I dislike them or anything like that, I just haven't figured out my real feelings, except that I regret that Paul is dead, because over the years he would have been just great, far greater than any Faul.
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Post by abbey on Jul 27, 2004 4:05:46 GMT
It is unusual, to say the least, to hear someone come away from a live Beatle concert with a "blah" attitude. They themselves would probably agree with you at this date in time. What was the use of performing if no one could hear you music? Of course then they didn't have the speaker systems we do 40 years later.
I think Paul would have become one of the best renowned songwriters/musicians/singers of today had he been allowed to live and continue growing musically as he was showing us he could and would do. The fact that Faul and his cronies want to totally delete James Paul's existence is totally an abomination.
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Post by The Taxman on Jul 27, 2004 14:46:01 GMT
Abbey...yes, it is hard even for me, now, to comprehend. I suppose that it was simply my youth that kept me disinterested. But I also have to say that I was a child of the Elvis years, which had just really ended and didn't need someone replacing him or the others who had come around during that period. I didn't have many and didn't buy many records but my guys were the Everly Brothers for a group sound that was razor sharp and beautifully produced (for the day) You're right about the sound systems...the didn't exist then just bigger speakers which really weren't a part of design of sytem. Even when the fellows reached Shea Stadium they still were victimized by the lack of quality of the electronics. It is also amazing that the RECORDING of their sound leaped from nothingness to just about astronomical even for needle and groove. That part was amazing even to today, but it also proves just how great they really were. "The Things We Said Today" was my all time favorite of the group sound, and "Don't Bother Me" just hangs around in my head even now. I suspect, btw, that I felt they were just trying to make some money at that first show and their hearts really weren't in it...you know getting used to the management they now had and being in a foreign country and all that. On the note of Paul's inherent and quite obvious talent: Yes, you are right...I don't go along with any of that complete destruction of the original. Paul ranks easily with the greats of his day and any otherand would probably end up with huge symphonies to his credit, leading parades down Broadway. To my view Lennon without McCartney just didn't make it and McCartney alone had no trouble. There is so much more to say on this and I suppose we will all say it soon enough. (There is one note for this post: The day after the DC show there was an actual review in the Washington Star, written by a man named John Kennedy, believe it, and he said, "...Obviously they have NO TALENT, but they put on a good show." Forgive me, but every time I think of this one passage in their lives, I laugh until I pass out!
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Post by BillyJones on Jul 27, 2004 15:52:47 GMT
Taxman - you CRACK me up !!! ;D Thank you so much for your honest & unbiased opinion of the Washington, D.C. concert !!! Things we said Today is also one of all time favorite Paul songs !!! Don't Bother me also sticks in my head at times !!! That's George for you !!! ;D Take care, dear... Chris
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