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Post by souljacker on Aug 29, 2003 16:15:43 GMT
OK...Don't flame me. I'm just putting forth a different point of view.
Facts: 1) "Despite the wars on both the home front and in Vietnam in 1969, it was a big year for plastic surgery. ASPS member Hal B. Jennings, MD, of San Antonio, Texas, was appointed Surgeon General of the United States by President Nixon, the first and only plastic surgeon to date to achieve this public service honor." So how could Paul (the supposedly fake one) have plastic surgery when the first time this service was performed was in 1969?
2) Some Lyrics that got mis-interpreted:
"Paul wanted Jane to give up acting to be with him constantly. She refused. This led to a number of arguments, but Paul was still enamored of her. It was for Jane Asher that he wrote "I'm Looking Through You".
*Not John looking through a false Paul...
3) September 6, 1966: Shooting of the movie 'How I Won The War' begins in West Germany. John, in his first and only movie role without the other Beatles, plays the part of Private Gripweed. He is given 'granny glasses' for the part which become part of his image.
Do you think he would be shooting a movie 5 days after Paul supposedly dissapears? Doesn't sound like someone who was in mourning.
4) A Paul lookalike contest? Where is the proof that this contest was held? Is there a picture of a newspaper clipping?
5) Sgt Peppers starts recording December of 1966...So they had a contest, performed plastic surgery, and trained the new Paul within a matter of 2 1/2 months?
Highly Unlikely.
6) Voice Comparisons? Again where is the proof? The findings mysteriously dissapeared? Why wasn't the 1973 (Think it was that year (wings over america album) or the accustic version(rare studio track) of Yesterday compared to the earlier recording. You'll find it is the one and same....How can you can compare a man's voice almost 20 years later. Also, listen pre-1966, Paul has a wide vocal range. He didn't always have deep bass to his voice when siging.
Other comparisons...Just listen to the remakes of the beatles songs on "give my regards to broadstreet"..Sounds like the same person to me. 7) Pictures...Paul's relationship with the rest of the beatles was well known to be intense from 67 - onward. It is not inconceivable to think that they got a stand in for photo shoots. However, I think this unlikely. I think the photos were just touched up. I have found matches of the old Paul and the post-66 Paul.
Although, unless you take the picture with the exact same camera and distance, your not going to get an exact match. Just look in different mirrors. Does your face always appear the same length and width?...
And most important of all....If they say the body was not recognizable, even with dental records...How did they know it was Paul?
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Post by SunKing on Aug 29, 2003 16:42:33 GMT
OK...Don't flame me. I'm just putting forth a different point of view. Facts: 1) "Despite the wars on both the home front and in Vietnam in 1969, it was a big year for plastic surgery. ASPS member Hal B. Jennings, MD, of San Antonio, Texas, was appointed Surgeon General of the United States by President Nixon, the first and only plastic surgeon to date to achieve this public service honor." So how could Paul (the supposedly fake one) have plastic surgery when the first time this service was performed was in 1969? Notorius Marylin Monoe plastic surgery to remove a bad scar from a previous pancreas operation and fixing her nose... and what about Montgomery Clift FAMOUS ones... ?-?-?-?-?-?-?-? Hey man! 5 days BEFORE.....and..it was the film that started.... Oh, you really need to read all the posts in this forum... Oh, you really need to read all the posts in this forum... ?-?-?-?-?-?-?-? WELL! Please show us them all! [glow=red,2,300]YES!!![/glow] You NEED to read the FAQ! OMG! Only a question. How old are you?
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Post by souljacker on Aug 29, 2003 19:14:15 GMT
I read, not on this site, that Paul's body was found, it wasn't recognizable to the point that dental records could not be checked...I thought that was amusing since if they couldn't identify the body, how did they know it was Paul....That was just sarcasm. I really didn't mean for it to be the most important part..I was only joking about that.
I must have edited this reply a hundred times. Instead of getting into that type of debate, I'll mearly state the facts...
1) Correct. Plastic Surgery goes back to 1920. I admit I was wrong on that one. I got some bad info.
Here is just some facts:
Paul's eyes. He had Hazel eyes, not brown. Just look at The Beatles - An illustrated record by Roy Carr and Tony Tyler..It lists all the beatles and their characteristics from a 1963 beatles flyer.
His height. although the same faq lists George, Paul, and John as 5ft 11 in. There are pictures in this book pre-1966 that clearly show Paul being taller.
Voice Prints: Paul had a dynamic range in his voice when singing. Let a voice expert do an analysis on him talking pre and post 1966. Let's see those documents on the findings and the credentials of the person who made the findings.
Face structure. If there is a site a can upload the pics I will. Or I'll look for the sites I found them and post the links when I find them again. I must have been to a hundred sites looking for photos.
Now the obvios stuff:
Why would the goverment want to cover this up? what do they gain from this?
Why wouldn't Paul's family expose the truth. Paul has a brother, do you think he would let someone walk around and impersonate Paul?
Paul had a lot of friends, relatives...Don't you think someone in his circle would have spoken up. And don't tell me if they did, they would have been killed. Look at roswell, a bigger conspiracy there, and people are flapping their mouths all over the place.
I know I'm not going to convince anyone who believes Paul is dead. People have a right to their own views and I respect that. I just don't buy Paul is dead....
I do like the site though. I think it was well put together. I'm just not convinced, though found it entertaining....
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Post by souljacker on Aug 29, 2003 22:22:15 GMT
To beat this one point into the ground, a quick google search tells me that Marilyn apparently had a chin implant of some sort as well as a nose job in 1962. Besides, what does a plastic surgeon becoming a U.S. Surgeon General have anything to do with anything? He was appointed in 1969 as the first one to have that position. He wasn't the first plastic surgeon ever. Correct. I admitted that I was wrong on this one.
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Post by Forum Manager on Aug 30, 2003 1:28:34 GMT
just a couple thoughts:
nobody here said "im looking through you" was a clue. that song was made before he died. also, there was no look alike contest. well there was, but it was held before he died, and the winner wasnt the replacement
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Post by souljacker on Aug 30, 2003 1:35:02 GMT
My friend is convinced as well that it isn't the same person. I admit after 66, his appearance does change quite frequently from picture to picture, although I still think it is the same person. -- Although albums like "driving rain" tend to put doubts in my head. :-)
Before I did some research on the topic, I had given my friend theories on what could have happened. He seemed to think them plausible. Although, I still think Paul is Paul..
Here is one theory.
After 66, the beatles were growing apart. It is no secret that Paul was fighting with the rest of the band. It could be that Paul had become so fed up that he started to refuse to show up for photo shoots and rehersels..Hense, they had a replacement fill in for him on photo shoots and had singers come in to do his parts.
Paul finally comes back in the final album fulltime, knowing it would be the beatles last one. You notice he starts to look like Paul again.
The reason with all the "Paul is dead" clues is that maybe he was dead to the band. John had done it out of spite because Paul was never around.
Another theory is that Paul just had a stand in.
The biggest reason why I have a hard time accepting it as true is the same reason you do. Why? And why would so many people try to hide the fact. Paul had many, many, friends..I think it would be impossible to keep them all quiet.
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Post by souljacker on Aug 30, 2003 1:39:41 GMT
just a couple thoughts: nobody here said "im looking through you" was a clue. that song was made before he died. also, there was no look alike contest. well there was, but it was held before he died, and the winner wasnt the replacement I had been looking through so many "Paul is dead" sites, that some posted that as a hint. Actually, there are so many bogus clues such as this, that these sites post, that none of them bothered to check when the songs/albums were written. So...I know I posted on this forum, but I was going over info I saw on all the sites. I'll make sure I keep it to what is listed on this site alone so I won't confuse things. You'll probably see references to other things on my first post that wasn't listed here as well. If so, that is the reason why.
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Post by falcon on Aug 30, 2003 2:39:52 GMT
Souljacker, I'm with you. So many claim the cigarette's in the wrong hand on Abbey Road (though Paul holds a cigarette in his right hand on the Twist & Shout back cover - 1963). They also claim the height thing. Take a look at the single for Help/I'm Down...Paul is clearly taller than George and John looks shorter than George. I've heard clues of a William Campbell being the winner of the Paul look-a-like contest and his replacement. But William Campbell was made up by Fred LaBour (later toured with Rider's In The Sky but was a Journalist who started all this). Also, it's alleged that McCartney died in January of 1967 not in 1966 so that would remove anything from Rubber Soul, Yesterday & Today and Revolver. So someone's claim that it's a poor imitation of Paul singing "For No One" is insulting the real Paul without a doubt. It would also eliminate some of the vocal work on Sgt. Pepper's I'm sure as taping began in December 1966. As for "I Buried Paul" at the end of Strawberry Fields, check out the working versions on Ultra Rare Tracks and it's abuntantly clear that John IS saying "Cranberry Sauce". I also doubt they'd be able to quickly find a replacement who resembles, sounds like and is left-handed. Besides, like you said, a family member or friend would surely step forward. There WAS a Paul sound-a-like contest and it was hosted by Dick Clark. The winner was Keith Allison, who went on to appear in a few teen shows and reportedly joined Paul Revere & The Raiders somewhere around 1966. Let's make up some new clues. When the fake Paul sings "Coming Up, like a flower" it's because the real Paul is buried and is fertilizer now. You know something...Elvis' voice in 1969 is nowhere near what it was like 1959. Maybe he died and was replaced too. Who knows, maybe he was riding with Paul. That would explain why he stopped making those movies. And got big and fat. Interesting. Anyway, I could poke fun all night but I mean no disrespect. The site link I've included was researched extensively and puts to rest many of the rumours. www.recmusicbeatles.com/public/files/faqs/pid.htmlAs for comparing voices, someone just needs to match the vocal patterns. They are as unique to everyone as a fingerprint. I doubt the findings would be what a few would want to hear. Though it sure is fun speculating. Good work on this site, I respect all your opinions but just don't agree with them. Please don't flame me just because I don't share your views. By the way, the patch on Paul's shoulder on Sgt. Pepper's is an OPP badge, all the Beatles received them in 1965 when they were here.
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Post by souljacker on Aug 30, 2003 3:15:57 GMT
Cool. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Aug 30, 2003 4:16:50 GMT
That site had some interesting clues on it, but when I got to the end of the article, expecting definitive evidence for Paul's continued existence, there was nothing there! He's still dead.
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Post by SunKing on Aug 30, 2003 16:24:38 GMT
Falcon you are just on the WRONG forum. Please see the FAQ of this forum before talking about. ...and ALL the posts inside....
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Post by victor on Aug 31, 2003 4:03:33 GMT
iris patterns are different for every person on earth, supposedly even identical twins.
perhaps there are differences between paul/faul that could be seen even from the relatively poor closeups WE have to work with.
who knows, given a nice 8x11 or 11x17 made from an original negative, what could be discovered?
i say it couldn't hurt, for someone with the right leads...
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Post by Forever 17 on Sept 2, 2003 3:02:40 GMT
I think the answer to the "why" question is probably the same in this case as in the Doris Day case and most all others. Money, greed, money and greed. Govt's, filmmakers, record producers.... why would they let all that slip through their fingers at the height of these people's careers? Why do they sell celebs into prostitution.... because of money out of greed.
Oh, I used to trust them, but not now!
As for the cig in the right hand, mirroring photos is very common and goes way, way back. It will even put a person's part in their hair on the other side of their head. Just a possibility. I want to find my way back to that picture and see if his hair is also going the other way across his head than usual. These are the clues we want to look for, aren't they?
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Post by xpt626 on Sept 2, 2003 3:30:37 GMT
"....As for the cig in the right hand...." I think too much may be made of that, regardless. I am left-handed, but do many things right-handed. I've never smoked, so I can't speculate about holding a cigarette; but I do seem to remember seeing a pic of Paul (pre-66) holding his cigarette right-handed.** Other posts have commented that James Paul used to gesture, etc predominately left-handed (and that Faul does a mixture, with a lot of right-handed gestures)... that is something that likely would not change in the same person. **edited to add:
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Post by Forum Manager on Sept 3, 2003 19:14:01 GMT
about paul holding the cig in his right hand in abbey road, it was probably becuase his right side was facing the camera. maybe they wanted the cig shown in the pic. maybe it was symbolic of him smoking his last cigarette.
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