On Bass Playing

[Beatlestobattle]

A quick review of Paul's bass playing evolution...excerpted from abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/paulbass.htm

"If those people that were digging up the "Paul Is Dead" clues had placed his death between November 11th, 1965 (the final "Rubber Soul" session) and April 6th, 1966, I'd probably have trouble disbelieving them. "

"And why? Because it's a whole new bass player who emerged on June 10th, the day "Paperback Writer" and "Rain" was released as a single."

Hmmmm!

[Beatlestobattle]

"Notice the quote from John: 'Paul was one of the most innovative bass players ever.'" -- Uberkinder

"I wonder if that was Klaus Voormann on the later Beatle recordings? I've talked to many musicians who say the bass playing in the later Beatle records is better than the earlier, although the earlier playing was still good." -- Dark_Horse

"All good evidence in court!" -- Sun_King

"Interestingly, Paul was in both of those videos, 'Rain' and 'Paperback Writer' and supposedly on both of those recordings and also the entire 'Rubber Soul' album." -- Dark_Horse

[Chris]

He was also bloated & sick. Maybe he just couldn't summon the energy to play on the sessions when those songs were made He was a very sick man, my friends...

Chris

[Forum Manager]

i know, i feel sorry for him. having IBS, then getting kidnapped. that poor guy!

[danny]

just curious on how we know he was so sick i never heard that he had ibs until i started reading these posts and i consider myself somewhat up on the history of the beatles........so where does this come from

[Eggman]

danny said:

just curious on how we know he was so sick i never heard that he had ibs until i started reading these posts and i consider myself somewhat up on the history of the beatles........so where does this come from

Because there are some pics that seems like Paul is wearing diapers.
See Sun King's site

[PaulBearer]

He was poisoned quite severely from eating scrambled eggs in late 64 and it did him permanent damage. It ate at one of his kidneys and he developed IBS. "Yesterday" is a song about his deteriorating health. Faul made up a silly story about the song originally being called "scrambled eggs" and thereby gave us another clue.

[Rojopa]

In the Anthology video during the tv special of the Beatles singing 'All You Need Is Love' Faul is playing the bass. Seems to be playing it quite well. Any comments?

[Eggman]

Yes. If you listen to what George Martin says in Anthology 8 talking about "All you need is love", he says that for the making of the TV presentation they recorded the basic tracks of the song before in Abbey Road. So the bass could be recorded before!!!
Curious as always!!!

[paibb]

Uh, I'm a drummer, so I wouldn't know much about it, lol! But, I know that Sgt. Pepper had some of the most innovative bass playing of Paul. I know good music when I hear it, and maybe if some of you guys watch the A Day In The Life music video you can catch some clips of Faul playing bass and see if he's matching it up correctly. I don't know, like I said, I'm a drummer, so the day I take up bass is the day I turn in my sticks. Lol

[Eggman]

the most of us thought that Klaus Voorman was the bassman in this sessions, he was a great friend of the Beatles and a good bassman. Remember that he was playing bass in a lot of John's solo albums.
And we pointed in the old forum that in the "Let It Be" movie Faul plays more piano than bass, and when he was playing bass the most of the shots were taking from his back like in the Rooftop Concert so we thought that someone else was playing the bass cause at that time Faul can't play it well.

[SunKing]

...more....
Uberkinder checked that the notes he plays DO NOT
correspond what we heard!!

More than a clue...

[Eggman]

Yes, exactly in a fast scene of the Rooftop Concert when they are playing "Get back", we can see Faul's fingers playing anything.

[Ramon]

On the old lost forum I wrote that it was Klaus Voorman who layed Bass with the Beatles.He was back with them in Hamburg days.He supplied artwork for Revolver and the anthologies.Ringos second soloalbum too if I recall.He was 'hip'was part of the Stiu and Astrid era.Played in Manfred Manns band in the sixties here in London making him mighty accesible when needed.
On Johns solo album I believe he exposes himself with some killer playing that is recognizable.
'I found out' has some runs in it which to me are reminiscent of the kind of playing on the White Album.
'Well Well Well' on Johns plastic ono band album also displays this style.A great bass player,and someone in the know!

[Eggman]

Perfect!!!

[Matt]

hello everyone. i'm brand new to this, in fact it was just this afternoon that i came across my first "paul is dead" sight which led me here. i'm intrigued, and admittedly the "forensic" evidence displayed in pre/post '66 paul pics is chilling. however i'm still skeptical and i'll try to explain why.

i'm a long time bass player, and i have a bass player's ear. if i am right, and correct me if i'm not, the supposed paul/faul switch occured between "revolver" and "sgt peppers", yeah? well, i will admit that the bass playing on "sgt peppers" (and onward) is much improved from the bass playing on "revolver". however it sounds to me like it's the same player, only more skillful. dedicated musicians evolve and improve as time goes on, no? however each player is unique, and has their distinctive style, their musical thumbprint, their "gestalt". the bass player on "sgt. peppers", and all following albums has the same "gestalt" as the original paul-i would stand by this. assuming paul was replaced, whoever replaced him in the studio played exactly as paul would have played had he lived, and continued to evolve as a musician. of course it's conceivable that another more skillful bass player was recruited to fill his shoes in the studio, and did their best to play "like paul". this could explain the subtle improvement in playing from "revolver" to "sgt peppers".
however as a musician i know how difficult it is to convincingly mimic another player's particular style. it's one thing to copy previously recorded material, but something else to come up with new material that successfuly mimics that player, enough to fool discerning ears. which isn't to say it couldn't be done. art experts are sometimes befuddled by counterfits of the masters. it would take a player of great skill, and a truly empathic understanding of paul's playing.

so my next question is, how does "faul" measure up as a bass player? i read that live shots of post-paul performances are rare and inconclusive. what about wings concert footage? 80s performences of "faul"? is he playing bass? if so does he display the same skill as on the beatles recordings? if he is a replacement, what are the chances of finding a lookalike, who is musicaly inclined (not everyone is an innate musician), who plays lefthanded (guitarists try switching hands, and imagine training yourself to proficiency like that), who plays convincingly and concistently like paul, who can sing a (reasonable) immitation, who plays the piano....the question i want answered from other mucisians is, does "faul" really play bass as well as the bass playing on the later beatles albums? conclusively?

i know it's not an impossible feat. it just seems so unlikely to me. to pull it off one would seem to need supernatural help---

---has anyone considered that possibility?-----

matt

[Renee]

Welcome, Matt!

(I think it's the same bass player too.)

[Matt]

my next question is about the post-'66 paul/faul song catalogue. if paul was dead, who wrote those songs? they certainly sound like paul songs to me.

i read it suggested somewhere that john wrote these songs, but come on! john was a great songwriter, but he wasn't good enough to competently mimic paul's writing style, both musicaly and lyricaly. (can you really imagine john, through any stretch of effort, coming up with "the long and winding road"? "when i'm 64")

i also heard it suggested that paul had written all these songs before he died, but i find that idea preposterous.
the songs show a clear evolutionary process, in a single, uninterupted creative ideom. how can you put "she came in through the bathroom window" alongside "i'm looking through you"? it doesn't hold up. no one would take an early period van gogh and compare it to a late period van gogh, and say they were produced at the same time!

i don't buy the idea that john was always the principle songwriter, and that he "gave" those songs to paul out of sympathy. their songwriting was as different as chalk and cheese!

the only explanation i can think of is that, post '66, an anonymous songwriter or songwriters were brought in to convincingly write "paul" songs--- this would have to be a writer of great skill and versatility. i find this even harder to fathom than the notion of a replacement bass player playing on the post '66 albums.

does anyone have any explanations?

i'm intrigued but still not convinced.

[TotalInformation]

matt - other posts on this thread and elsewhere have gotten into who they thought was playing bass and which songs had old bass tracks played by Paul.

You'll also find discussionon here of teh songwriting. Basically the theory goes that paul had a great creative burst at some point in the last year or two of his life, and this is where the backlog came from. Those and a few songs Lennon wrote that were credited to (Faul) McCartney are said to account for the balance of the Faul-Beatles catalog.

[Matt]

hmmmm......
it was suggested that it was klaus voorman, wasn't it?(spelling?) where can i hear other examples of his playing? which lennon albums did he play on? i only have "shaved fish", but i could download songs. is it probable that he would disguise his playing when playing as himself?

i'd still like to hear an analysis of post-beatles live "faul" bass playing. does anyone have one? i'll do it myself if i get the chance.

thanks

[SunKing]

Matt,
have you ever seen Faul playing bass "live"?
I did.
I am a musician from about 30 years.
I can say: Faul (after 36 years) can't play the bass (left handled).
It's simple!

I confirm MANY bass lines in "Sgt. Pepper" already played by James Paul McCartney e.g. in "A Little Help From My Friends "

[Matt]

thanks sun king, that's what i was looking for.

in defence of faulpaul:

from experience i know how difficult it is to play bass and sing at the same time. it's much easier to sing and play guitar.
in the studio paul would record bass and vocal tracks seperately, so he could be elaborate in his playing. performing live he would probably simplify his basslines.

however there's a difference between simplification and incompetence. until i can check for myself i'll take your word.



by the way does anyone know who played bass on "shaved fish"?

thanks

p.s. thanks for the welcome and affirmation mrs. redford

[Beatlestobattle]

Klaus Voormann, Gary Van Scyoc, Gordon Edwards.

Klaus: Tracks 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10
Gary: Track 6, second half of the Track 11 medley
Gordon: Track 9


Glad to be of service. And, incidentally, listening to the songs and Andrew's clips, I think it's still the same person.

[Matt]

thanks, btb. i'll check it out.

since i came across this sight, i've been listening VERY closely to early and late beatles tracks. i would swear it's the same player all the way through. if he was replaced, they did an AMAZING job.

[Matt]

IMPORTANT!!!

I've been watching the "All You Need is Love" performance VERY closely....

...and I GUARANTEE that what Faulpaul is playing coresponds EXACTLY with the bassline. To the smallest detail, in every shot he's in. Both his right hand fingering and his left hand pick work. Every fill and add-lib. HE'S NOT FAKING IT.

I will provide a SCENE BY SCENE ANALISYS if requested, and musicians can check it out themselves.


So either....

In June of 1967 Faul was just as capable a left-handed bass player as Paul was, and could imitate his style perfectly.

OR "Faul" was METICULOUSLY coached for this one song.

OR...

James Paul McCartney was alive and playing with the Beatles on June 25 1967.

This doesn't mean that Paul wasn't replaced. It just proves that, for those who contend that Faul is an inferior bass player than Paul, on June 25 1967 he was JUST AS GOOD.