Sylvie Vartan Is Dead

[BeatlePaul]

ViVi said:

There is more than one way to interpret these songs.

About the only way I WOULD even consider it, would be that she might've clung onto him to get him to listen to her & he pushed her away too hard. She might've fallen badly, hit her head, & died from the injury.

One possibility. The more realistic considering all the facts

BTW - for Paul to have killed Sylvie would mean that he did it after she gave birth to David, but before he himself was killed right ?

Exactly. After that he was followed and killed.
As revenge? And by Johnny Halliday?
Speculations.

Also, I think that the songs that have so much repetition of phrases in them are John's work. I don't think Paul liked repeating the same things over & over.

Yes.
I've checked all the albums released after September 1966.

When I find "Lennon/McCartney
it seems to be a song written by:
Only John Lennon
John Lennon with the help of George Harrison
Mal Evan's song

When I find: "John Lennon / Paul McCartney"
it seems to be a song written by:
- completely by a still living Paul McCartney
- Paul McCartney and completed by John Lennon
- Paul McCartney completed by John Lennon and George Martin
- Paul McCartney and completed by George Martin (as in "A Family Way" soundtrack)


When one interpreters a song has to know what ALBUM the song belongs to.

That song belongs to "Abbey Road"

In "Abbey Road" front cover we find the Beatles carrying Paul from the Volkswagen to the Police van for deads.

In "Abbey Road" back cover we find a wall with a written "BEATLES" with a broken S, a girl passing with the same dress Sylvie had the first time she met Paul at the Olympia theatre.

Now if you relisten to ALL the Album knowing the story about Paul and Sylvie all the lyrics make sense.

"Something" seem to be the first time Paul took a look at Sylvie

The "little darling" of "Here Comes The Sun " seems to be Sylvie that was "not so tall"
(George's wife was quite tall instead)

The LP 33rpm has TWO sides.

Side A about Paul and Sylvie Story
Side B about Bill and the Beatles story

That's speculation.

[ViVi]

Beatle Paul - that's some speculation ;D

I have to re-listen to Abbey Road now.

I think that Beatled & Mother Mary Abbey might be onto something concerning the song She's So Heavy.

I always do my best to keep an open mind at all times.

ViVi

[Hamlet]

Maybe "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" (LSD) is telling Paul doped with LSD and then "The Fool on the Hill"??

And, reading lyrics, is that telling places Paul was???
Like first was with a girl in romantic "walk", describing flowers, etc (describing what is in a hill??) then, girl dissapears and follow her under the effects of LSD??? places like bridge, fountain, and then take taxi cab??

The Girl could be Silvie??

Picture yourself on a boat in a river
With tangerine trees and marmalade skies
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly
A girl with kaleidoscope eyes

Cellophane flowers of yellow and green
Towering over your head
Look for the girl with the sun in her eyes
and she's gone

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah

Follow her down to a bridge by a fountain
Where rocking horse people eat marshmallow pies
Everyone smiles as you drift past the flowers
that grow so incredibly high

Newspaper taxies appear on the shores
Waiting to take you away
Climb in the back with your head in the clouds
and you're gone

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah

Picture yourself in a train in a station
With plasticine porters with looking glass ties
Suddenly someone is there at the turnstile
The girl with kaleidoscope eyes

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah



Note that has "head in a cloud" and also Fool on the Hill has "Head in a cloud"..... like being "high"


But how come Walrus says "see how they fly like Lucy in the Sky, see how they run"

[ViVi]

Hamlet - who knows ? I find your interpretation of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds very interesting. I've never read that kind of interpretation of those words. I wouldn't be surprised if some songs are made to be interpreted in more than one way !

ViVi

[Hamlet]

Sister said:

As I stated before, there were some of those pictures where Paul doesn't look happy to be around Sylvie. Looks like he'd rather be somewhere else!

Revolver, "For No ONe", 1966, could be about Silvie??

You day breaks, your mind aches
You find that all her words
of kindness linger on
When she no longer needs you
She wakes up, she makes up
She takes her time and doesn't
feel she has to hurry
She no longer needs you

And in her eyes, you see nothing
No sign of love behind the tears
Cried for no one
A love that should have lasted years

You want her, you need her
And yet you don't believe her
When she says her love is dead
You think she needs you

And in her eyes, you see nothing
No sign of love behind the tears
Cried for no one
A love that should have lasted years

You stay home, she goes out
She says that long ago she knew someone
but now he's gone
She doesn't need him
your day breaks, your mind aches
There will be times when all the things
she said will fill your head
You won't forget her

And in her eyes, you see nothing
No sign of love behind the tears
Cried for no one
A love that should have lasted years


.... or could be about JANE???

and then on the same ALbum , "Got to get you into my LIFE" (SILVIE???)

I was alone, I took a ride
I didn't know what I would find there
Another road where maybe I
could see another kind of mind there
Ooo, then I suddenly see you
Ooo, did I tell you I need you
Every single day of my life

You didn't run, you didn't hide
You know i wanted just to hold you
And had you gone, you knew in time
We'd meet again for I had told you
Ooo, you were meant to be near me
Ooo, and I want you to hear me
Say we'll be together every day
Got to get you into my life

What can I do, what can I be
When I'm with you I want to stay there
If I'm true I'll never leave
And if I do I know the way there
Ooo, then I suddenly see you
Ooo, did I tell you I need you
Every single day of my life
Got to get you into my life

I was alone, I took a ride
I didn't know what I would find there
Another road where maybe I
could see another kind of mind there
Ooo, then I suddenly see you
Ooo, did I tell you I need you
Every single day


and then "Good Day Sunshine"

Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine

I need to laugh, and when the sun is out
I've got something I can laugh about
I feel good, in a special way
I'm in love and it's a sunny day

Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine

We take a walk, the sun is shining down
Burns my feet as they touch the ground

Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine

Then we lie beneath a shady tree
I love her and she's loving me
She feels good, she know she's looking fine
I'm so proud to know that she is mine

Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine



and then "Here, there and everywhere"

To lead a better life
I need my love to be here

Here, making each day of the year
Changing my life with a wave of her hand
Nobody can deny that there's something there

There, running my hands through her hair
Both of us thinking how good it can be
Someone is speaking, but she doesn't know he's there

I want her everywhere
And if she's beside me I know I need never care
But to love her is to need her

Everywhere, knowing that love is to share
Each one believing that love never dies
Watching her eyes and hoping I'm always there

I want her everywhere
And if she's beside me I know I need never care
But to love her is to need her

I will be there, and everywhere
Here, there and everywhere


In Revolver, Paul's songs reveal he in love with somebody, but also in For No ONe is in resignation for losing love with somebody..........

Was Paul going to leave Jane for Silvie??

[BeatlePaul]

Hamlet said:

Revolver, "For No ONe", 1966, could be about Silvie??

You day breaks, your mind aches
You find that all her words
of kindness linger on
When she no longer needs you
She wakes up, she makes up
She takes her time and doesn't
feel she has to hurry
She no longer needs you

And in her eyes, you see nothing
No sign of love behind the tears
Cried for no one
A love that should have lasted years

You want her, you need her
And yet you don't believe her
When she says her love is dead
You think she needs you

And in her eyes, you see nothing
No sign of love behind the tears
Cried for no one
A love that should have lasted years

You stay home, she goes out
She says that long ago she knew someone
but now he's gone
She doesn't need him
your day breaks, your mind aches
There will be times when all the things
she said will fill your head
You won't forget her

And in her eyes, you see nothing
No sign of love behind the tears
Cried for no one
A love that should have lasted years


.... or could be about JANE???

and then on the same ALbum , "Got to get you into my LIFE" (SILVIE???)

I was alone, I took a ride
I didn't know what I would find there
Another road where maybe I
could see another kind of mind there
Ooo, then I suddenly see you
Ooo, did I tell you I need you
Every single day of my life

You didn't run, you didn't hide
You know i wanted just to hold you
And had you gone, you knew in time
We'd meet again for I had told you
Ooo, you were meant to be near me
Ooo, and I want you to hear me
Say we'll be together every day
Got to get you into my life

What can I do, what can I be
When I'm with you I want to stay there
If I'm true I'll never leave
And if I do I know the way there
Ooo, then I suddenly see you
Ooo, did I tell you I need you
Every single day of my life
Got to get you into my life

I was alone, I took a ride
I didn't know what I would find there
Another road where maybe I
could see another kind of mind there
Ooo, then I suddenly see you
Ooo, did I tell you I need you
Every single day


and then "Good Day Sunshine"

Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine

I need to laugh, and when the sun is out
I've got something I can laugh about
I feel good, in a special way
I'm in love and it's a sunny day

Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine

We take a walk, the sun is shining down
Burns my feet as they touch the ground

Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine

Then we lie beneath a shady tree
I love her and she's loving me
She feels good, she know she's looking fine
I'm so proud to know that she is mine

Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine
Good day sunshine



and then "Here, there and everywhere"

To lead a better life
I need my love to be here

Here, making each day of the year
Changing my life with a wave of her hand
Nobody can deny that there's something there

There, running my hands through her hair
Both of us thinking how good it can be
Someone is speaking, but she doesn't know he's there

I want her everywhere
And if she's beside me I know I need never care
But to love her is to need her

Everywhere, knowing that love is to share
Each one believing that love never dies
Watching her eyes and hoping I'm always there

I want her everywhere
And if she's beside me I know I need never care
But to love her is to need her

I will be there, and everywhere
Here, there and everywhere


In Revolver, Paul's songs reveal he in love with somebody, but also in For No ONe is in resignation for losing love with somebody..........

Was Paul going to leave Jane for Silvie??

Hamlet: Fantastic!

Well let's think about the chronology:

Sylvie had David on August 1966.

Well:

1st option - If David too is Paul's then he was going to leave Jane.

2nd option - If David is a son of Johnny Halliday then Sylvie decided to leave Paul after 2 years of a great love and a son (Nicola).

According this second option Sylvie left Paul on before October-November 1965.

[BeatlePaul]

Hamlet said:

Maybe "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" (LSD) is telling Paul doped with LSD and then "The Fool on the Hill"??

And, reading lyrics, is that telling places Paul was???
Like first was with a girl in romantic "walk", describing flowers, etc (describing what is in a hill??) then, girl dissapears and follow her under the effects of LSD??? places like bridge, fountain, and then take taxi cab??

The Girl could be Silvie??

Picture yourself on a boat in a river
With tangerine trees and marmalade skies
Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly
A girl with kaleidoscope eyes

Cellophane flowers of yellow and green
Towering over your head
Look for the girl with the sun in her eyes
and she's gone

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah

Follow her down to a bridge by a fountain
Where rocking horse people eat marshmallow pies
Everyone smiles as you drift past the flowers
that grow so incredibly high

Newspaper taxies appear on the shores
Waiting to take you away
Climb in the back with your head in the clouds
and you're gone

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah

Picture yourself in a train in a station
With plasticine porters with looking glass ties
Suddenly someone is there at the turnstile
The girl with kaleidoscope eyes

Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds
Lucy in the sky with diamonds, ah



Note that has "head in a cloud" and also Fool on the Hill has "Head in a cloud"..... like being "high"


But how come Walrus says "see how they fly like Lucy in the Sky, see how they run"

Please don't forget "Yer Blues"
"The black cloud crossed my mind
Blue mist round my soul "

[abbey]

Hamlet, where are you getting your idea of Sylivie meaning anything at all to Paul.

I was there from the very beginning 2/9/64! Although Paul never had any shortage of women available, the main lady in his life was Jane. No one ever heard of this Sylvie "bird". In the pictures Paul generally looks unhappy with Sylvie; like he would prefer being anywhere but there; hoping the floor would swallow him; anything! He may have had a "fling" with her, but I doubt it was anything more than that.

She lived in France; I am sure he'd want someone much more available....like Jane.

Possibly Sylvie was a stalker and followed Paul around like a shadow. Because she would have "star status" , she might have gotten access to his room and be there waiting even if she wasn't welcome.

[BeatlePaul]

Sister said:

I was there from the very beginning 2/9/64!

Have I read well?

Although Paul never had any shortage of women available, the main lady in his life was Jane. No one ever heard of this Sylvie "bird". In the pictures Paul generally looks unhappy with Sylvie; like he would prefer being anywhere but there; hoping the floor would swallow him; anything!

Are you really sure about that?

Possibly Sylvie was a stalker and followed Paul around like a shadow. Because she would have "star status" , she might have gotten access to his room and be there waiting even if she wasn't welcome.

Sorry but Sylvie was already a star.

Before THE BEATLES.

Sorry if you in USA don't know that.

[TotalInformation]

That looks like the same dress in those b&w photos.

Was the blue dress her "stage costume," like the Beatles' too-tight suits were?

[JamesPaul & Brian]

I can't explain why but Paul and Sylvie seem very much as a "couple" in this picture.

Paul looks as happy (or more) there with Sylvie than any time photographed with Jane...!

[TotalInformation]

More pics of Vartan in similarly iconic sleevelees blue dresses:






(And of course Faul had a 1966 vintage suit tailored for the Abbey Road LP photo shoot.)

[SunKing]

JamesPaul said:

I can't explain why but Paul and Sylvie seem very much as a "couple" in this picture.

Paul looks as happy (or more) there with Sylvie than any time photographed with Jane...!

My thought too.

[ViVi]

I don't want to nitpick, but in the photo of Sylvie next to Paul, John & Ringo are there too. I don't see any photos of her EXCLUSIVELY with Paul.
I'm not discounting that she might've had a relationship with him. I just think that you guys are making too much of it!
As Sun King stated, Sylvie was a star BEFORE The Beatles were. I think that she found them exciting because of their NEW star status.
The photo where Sylvie is looking at Paul being a cutup, her expression says to me that she's trying to figure him out. Like he's a cute tasty morsel that she might like to sample. The pose he has with her in the photo with John & Ringo is very much like other people would pose with him. He''s posing next to her as if "he's" the fan & "she's" the star!
I don't think any of the photos I've seen denote that a relationship was already in the works. If anything, I think the photo of her looking at him sticking his head in ( the one with all their names on it ) shows that she found him "very cute & interesting".

ViVi

[abbey]

I agree with ViVi. Besides, they are posing for photographs, so Paul would be smiling. If a sexual encouter took place, and it probably did, it was just another fling. I don't think Paul would have been anymore enthralled with her than with all the other many women he slept with. Any number of women flung themselves at him. With his looks and personality, he was enjoying a large sampling of the offerings out there and he wasn't ready to really settle down in an exclusive one-woman relationship. He was still a young man.....24 when he died. He was still "sowing his wild oats".

Maybe the reason that he doesn't often look happy with Jane is because he got tired of being photographed every time they tried to have an evening out. Also, any couple living together or seeing each other frequently do have disagreements and arguments, yet have an obligation to show up at an event together.

The songs he wrote were for Jane. Sometimes their relationship was great; sometimes, they were fighting or upset with each other. Isn't that fairly normal for any relationship? If you can even call Paul's life normal.

About the only times he wasn't photographed was in the "loo" or in bed, alone, or with someone. He had to count himself lucky not to be photographed then!!!! The poor guy counldn't turn around without a flash bulb going off in his face. He was usually a good sport about it, but there were times you could tell he was annoyed or tired or not feeling well.

[PaulBearer]

What Vivi and Abbey say could be correct; however I believe there is a direct link between Paul and Sylvie's death. When Sylvie found out that Paul wasn't serious about her (maybe just a fling) she may have committed suicide (perhaps right in front of him!) or there may have been an altercation with her and Paul and Paul, not wanting to be tied down and feeling trapped, particular if a child was involved, temporarily "lost it" (as can happen with all of us, even the nicest) and accidentally killed her. I believe the incident, whatever it was, would have happened in France where Sylvie lived which is why he was found there wandering lost and in a daze - he was in emotional shock over what had happened. Paul may have been dragged into a mafiosa shotgun wedding type situation and couldn't handle it. On the trip back, Sunday September 11th, Brian and Paul were kidnapped - the kidnapping was probably a separate event; however there could be a tie-in with what happened with Sylvie. (Under this scenario, the Melody Maker Awards would have had to have occurred on the 2nd or 3rd or September, just after getting back from the US, and then The Beatles may've all gone to France for a week's holiday - Francie mentions such a thing occurring in September).

John's "joining" Paul and Brian in France on about Sept 16th may've been his attempt to trace their steps.

As regards to an altercation, remember the song "Getting Better", though purportedly about John beating Cynthia, the song was written by Paul, not John, so maybe John "took the bullet" on that one to protect Paul's reputation.

[TotalInformation]

'Fylvie' with David 1968

She's good looking, but she looks like a man.
(Have you seen Polythene 'Sylvie'?)

[PaulBearer]

TotalInformation said:

She's good looking, but she looks like man.
(Have you seen Polythene 'Sylvie'?)

Doesn't "she" remind you a bit of Tara Browne? What if...?

[TotalInformation]

From members.chello.nl/~k.vanderhoeven/JDL.html

Out Of Gas

Sylvie Vartan's first recording, original the b-side of a Frankie Jordan hit (Sylvie, though singing the better half of the song, was not credited on the original 45, but later releases did). Sylvie later recorded a re-make with Pierre Palmade, now Sylvie singing the 'male'-part

Floyd Robinson (1960), RCA 7827)
Frankie Jordan & Sylvie Vartan (1961, French cover: "Panne d'essence")
Sylvie Vartan (1998, cd Irresistiblement Sylvie! with Pierre Palmade)

[TotalInformation]

re: "GettingBetter" -- the song was written by Paul, not John

Why do you think so?

[PaulBearer]

I've read that Paul wrote Getting Better. Which is why it is a puzzle that he should write about john beating his woman.

[BeatlePaul]

TotalInformation said:

She's good looking, but she looks like a man.
(Have you seen Polythene 'Sylvie'?)

img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/beatlepaulmccartney/sylvie_vartan/sylvie_vartan_and_fylvie.jpg[/IMG]

Yes, you are into something , Total!

"In a cap she looked much older
And the bag across her shoulder
Made her look a little like a military man"


"Got the Bill and Rita paid it"

"Boy, you've been a naughty girl
you let your knickers down"

is about Fylvie ... Comme un garçon (Just like a boy)

Comme un garçon j'ai les cheveux long
Comme un garçon je porte un blouson
Un médaillon, un gros ceinturon, comme un garçon
Comme un garçon moi je suis têtue
Et bien souvent moi je distribue
Des corrections faut faire attention
Comme un garçon

Pourtant je ne suis qu'une fille
Et quand je suis dans tes bras
Je n'suis qu'une petite fille
Perdue, quand tu n'es plus là

Comme un garçon moi j'ai ma moto
Comme un garçon je fais du rodéo
C'est la terreur à 200 à l'heure
Comme un garçon
Comme un garçon je n'ai peur de rien
Comme un garçon moi j'ai des copains
Et dans la bande c'est moi qui commande
Comme un garçon

Pourtant je ne suis qu'une fille
Et quand je suis avec toi
Je n'suis qu'une petite fille
Tu fais ce que tu veux de moi

Comme un garçon j'ai les cheveux long
Comme un garçon je porte un blouson
Un médaillon, un gros ceinturon, comme un garçon
Comme un garçon toi tu n'est pas très attentionné
T'es décontracté, mais avec toi
Je ne suis plus jamais, comme un garçon

Je suis une petite fille
Tu fais ce que tu veux de moi
Je suis une toute petite fille
Et c'est beaucoup mieux comme ça
Voi-là

[ViVi]

I disagree about Getting Better. The wording is all wrong for a Paul song ( hey, I rhymed. I'm a poet & I didn't know it! ). The words, the cadence, the melody EVERYTHING about it screams that John wrote it.
I have it playing in my head now. Can someone tell me who sang that song ? Was it Bill/Faul? Was it one of the vocal impersonators ? Was it John himself?
I honestly can't tell !
Concerning the Paul - Sylvie thing I find P.B.'s scenario very interesting. Since Paul was found wandering around France in a daze, I wouldn't be surprised if he was involved in an altercation concerning a shotgun wedding. Why not ? Paul was NOT ready to marry anyone at that time. I don't however believe that Paul had anything to do with Sylvie's death. He was a lover, not a fighter. He always did his best to either avoid, or get out of any altercations he might've found himself involved in. I'm certain that John bailed him out more than once ! The following scenario is pure speculation.

What if Sylvie contacted Brian, because Paul took off & she was worried because of the possible repercussions.
So, he went to France to find Paul. He picked up Sylvie, since she knew where he had last been seen. They found Paul wandering in a daze because of shock due to exposure. At that point, they were run off the road & killed by Sylvie's family who were gunning for Paul. I would guess that THEY didn't realize that Sylvie was in the car! Maybe she was in disguise so that they wouldn't follow her as she went with Brian to look for Paul. Now THAT at least makes sense !

Beatle Paul - I love those two photos you just posted. They definitely show that Sylvie & Fylvie are two different women ( or IS Fylvie a woman ;D ).

ViVi

[BeatlePaul]

ViVi said:

What if Sylvie contacted Brian, because Paul took off & she was worried because of the possible repercussions.

Very probably Brian "covered" the relation between Paul and Sylvie.

[PaulBearer]

Indications towards the author of Getting Better:

members.aol.com/LennonNYC/better.html

www.newdada.it/pepper/html/getbet.html

www.beatles-discography.com/index.html?http://www.beatles-discography.com/beatles_songs_g.html