Sylvie Vartan Is Dead

[ViVi]

So, you believe that was one of the last songs Paul sang ? I still can't believe he's singing about himself. He was NOT the type to beat a woman. Are you SURE it's him singing & not a vocal impersonator ?

It's getting better all the time

I used to get mad at my school
The teachers that taught me weren't cool
You're holding me down
Burning me round
filling me up with the rules

I've got to admit it's getting better
a little better all the time
I have to admit it's getting better
it's getting better since you've been mine

Me used to be angry young man
Me hiding me head in the sand
You gave me the word
I finally heard
I'm doing the best that I can

I've got to admit it's getting better
a little better all the time
I have to admit it's getting better
it's getting better since you've been mine
getting so much better all the time

It's getting better all the time
better, better, better
It's getting better all the time
better, better, better

I used to be cruel to my woman I beat her
and kept her apart from the things that she loved
Man, I was mean but I'm changing my scene
and I'm doing the best that I can

I've got to admit it's getting better
a little better all the time
Yes, admit it's getting better
it's getting better since you've been mine
getting so much better all the time

It's getting better all the time
better, better, better
It's getting better all the time
better, better, better
Getting so much better all the time

The words are all wrong for a song Paul wrote himself. If he was involved in writing it at all, he wrote it WITH John.

It's getting better all the time
I used to get mad at my school
The teachers that taught me weren't cool
You're holding me down
Burning me round
filling me up with the rules

John was the one who did badly in school, Paul was a good student.

Me used to be angry young man
Me hiding me head in the sand
You gave m the word
I finally heard
I'm doing the best that I can

Someone PLEASE show me where Paul had written another song referring to himself in that way !

I used to be cruel to my woman I beat her
and kept her apart from the things that she loved
Man, I was mean but I'm changing my scene
and I'm doing the best that I can

John was the one who was known to raise his hands to Cyn. Nowhere have I ever heard that Paul hit a woman!

As far as I'm concerned, those three stanzas were definitely written by John. I believe that if Paul was involved at all in writing this song, it was by him helping John put it together.

P.B. I checked out the three links you provided. The first one is suspect, since it involves info provided by Bill/Faul. We all know how he likes to "rewrite" history.

The second link just states that it was recorded by Paul in 1967. As we all know, Paul was gone by then.

In the 3rd link John actually states that HE wrote the stanza concerning beating his woman. He admits to having problems controlling his hands ! After reading that third link, I'm pretty sure that John wrote a good portion of "Getting Better". Since parts of it were inspired by their replacement drummer Jimmy Nichols when Paul was still alive, maybe Paul & John worked on it together years before.

ViVi

[TotalInformation]

PB - your first link reads like a typical FAUL fairy tale.

The second is from George Martin's liner notes for the 87 pepper CD release. While being a 'most revealing' release in some ways, it certainly can't be taken at face value.

The information from the third is interesting in that it reveals the song is based on a catch phrase from an earlier replacement Beatle. The replacement musician on the Pepper concept album was "Billy Shears." If I had to guess, I would say that "Paul" song was written by Lennon and sung by FAUL.

[abbey]

ViVi's speculated scenario would make sense. Maybe Paul was wandering around in a daze after a beating by Sylvie's family. And it makes sense they'd run them off the road not knowing she was in the car with Brian and Paul. Again, we know this is only speculation, but possible.

It may be that Paul treated the affair as casually as all the others and possibly Sylvia thought it was real; possibly she got pregnant (she wouldn't be the only girl to do that to force a man into marriage); her family wanted a 'shotgun' wedding and Paul was anything but ready to settle down. Paul didn't like physical fighting so he wouldn't be worth sh*t in a confrontation. Even worse off it were several against one. Johnny always was his protector in any type of fistycuffs, but Johnny wasn't there that day......

John has never denied he hit Cynthia and even hit Yoko. In was case he beat Yoko bad enough that she miscarried their child. "Getting Better" would be John's style.....Paul may have corroborated a few lines as that's how they often wrote their songs, but the basic cadence and wording seems to scream "Johnny". It is basically his style. Also ViVi is right as to Paul being what Americans would call an "A" student whereas John was the class clown and general screw off.

[TotalInformation]

boy you've been a naughty girl;
you let your knickers down

If Paul was run off the road twice on 11 September -- maybe he was with both Brian and "Polythene 'Sylvie'" - "Pylvie"? -- and Pylvie went off to a hotel, or home, or whatever after the first incident.

Pylvie could have been a transexual involved with Brian?

When did Vartan die? Early 66? Late 65?

But David Hallyday was born in August 1966. This si still very obscure...

[BeatlePaul]

It was told:

"don't you think the joker laughs at you"

"Got to be a joker
He just do what he please"


Paul was a joker
The Joker and two Women of French cards
The Woman of Diamonds and the Woman of Spades

....Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game

[abbey]

On that third link that PB indicated telling about the Getting Better studio session. Well, I heard a slightly different version....it seems Sir Faul is trying to re-write history.

John took a pill while they were recording. It must have been acid because he starting acting strange. He was afraid of the mic. So, George Martin asked Paul to take John home. On the way home, Paul asked John if he had another one of those with him. John said he did and they went to Paul's house. That was the first time Paul dropped acid. He and John sat on the Oriental carpet going "Wow, man". When I use the term Paul here, we know it was really Faul. I am just paraphrasing the story I was told


The new version in the link states George Martin took John up on the roof and left him. Now, really folks, if you took someone outside because they were feeling ill, would you leave them alone on top of a roof??? Of course, not! It's lucky they didn't have another death to try and cover up

[PaulBearer]

I wonder if in fact Sylvie died before September, before the US tour and before the Revolver album, maybe mid-66. Hence clues in said album. The photo of Sylvie with the death theme was number 7 of 10. July perhaps? ALL THIS IS SPECULATON ONLY.

Fylvie in the car with Brian and Paul on September 11th? And did she/he in fact betray them and help the kidnappers since impersonators tend to be agents as well like Faul?

BTW SK - is Fylvie still alive?

[PaulBearer]

Lyrics to She Said She Said:

She said I know what it's like to be dead
I know what it is to be sad
And she's making me feel like I've never been born.

I said "Who put all those things in your hair
Things that ake me feel that I'm mad
And you're making me feel like I've never been born."

She said "you don't understand what I said"
I said "No, no, no, you're wrong"
When I was a boy everything was right
Everything was right

I said "Even though you know what you know
I know that I'm ready to leave
'Cause you're making me feel like I've never been born."

She said "you don't understand what I said"
I said "No, no, no, you're wrong"
When I was a boy everything was right
Everything was right

I said "Even though you know what you know
I know that I'm ready to leave
'Cause you're making me feel like I've never been born."

She said I know what it's like to be dead
I know what it is to be sad...

SPECULATION ONLY: Is the "she" Sylvie/Fylvie? Also, with the line "when I was a boy, everything was right", do we know for sure that the lyrics have been written with the correct punctuation? Perhaps those are Fylvie's words, belating he has to impersonate a woman.

However, what we need to know is, at what point did Sylvie change and become different? It would help us to narrow down the time of the year she was killed.

[SunKing]

Paul said:

www.beatles-discography.com/beatles_songs_g.html

Look at the banner on top of that page!

Authors changed it soon after I alerted them about 60IF....

[SunKing]

Paul said:

I wonder if in fact Sylvie died before September, before the US tour and before the Revolver album, maybe mid-66. Hence clues in said album. The photo of Sylvie with the death theme was number 7 of 10. July perhaps? ALL THIS IS SPECULATON ONLY.

Fylvie in the car with Brian and Paul on September 11th? And did she/he in fact betray them and help the kidnappers since impersonators tend to be agents as well like Faul?

BTW SK - is Fylvie still alive?

She/he is WELL alive....

I am wondering about that scenario.

Brian and Paul were killed because of it.



So the reason of that picture: Fylvie looking at Brian and Paul death....like satisfied

Only speculation.....

I look at you all see the love there that's sleeping
While my guitar gently weeps
I look at the floor and I see it need sweeping
Still my guitar gently weeps

I don't know why nobody told you
how to unfold you love
I don't know how someone controlled you
they bought and sold you

I look at the world and I notice it's turning
While my guitar gently weeps
With every mistake we must surely be learning
Still my guitar gently weeps

I don't know how you were diverted
you were perverted too
I don't know how you were inverted
no one alerted you

I look at you all see the love there that's sleeping
While my guitar gently weeps
I look at you all
Still my guitar gently weeps

Oh, oh, oh
oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
oh oh, oh oh, oh oh
Yeah yeah yeah yeah
yeah yeah yeah yeah

[BeatlePaul]

Eleanor Rigby

Ah, look at all the lonely people
Ah, look at all the lonely people

Eleanor Rigby, picks up the rice
in the church where a wedding has been
Lives in a dream
Waits at the window, wearing the face
that she keeps in a jar by the door
Who is it for

All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?

Father McKenzie, writing the words
of a sermon that no one will hear
No one comes near
Look at him working, darning his socks
in the night when there's nobody there
What does he care

All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?

Ah, look at all the lonely people
Ah, look at all the lonely people

Eleanor Rigby, died in the church
and was buried along with her name
Nobody came
Father McKenzie, wiping the dirt
from his hands as he walks from the grave
No one was saved

All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?


So was it about Sylvie?

[abbey]

I just remembered that Francie said in her book, "Body Count" that "Paul" would threatened to beat her.....and his saying Jane liked it rough. If this is the case, then it seems Faul would well fit the singer for "Getting Better" and I still say the words fit Johnny's style.

Also where in the world did all this emphasis sudden come about regarding Sylvie? If she were anything at all to Paul, why wasn't there more publicity about the romance or fling or whatever? Paul couldn't go anyway without a photographer or journalist practically at his hip. The same would be true in France for Sylvie.

[BeatlePaul]

Sister said:

I just remembered that Francie said in her book, "Body Count" that "Paul" would threatened to beat her.....and his saying Jane liked it rough. If this is the case, then it seems Faul would well fit the singer for "Getting Better" and I still say the words fit Johnny's style.

After "checking better" that song: agreed.

[TotalInformation]

It was Peter Fonda who kept telling Lennon "I know what it's like to be dead" when John, George and Ringo were tripping on LSD at DORIS DAY'S house (10050 Cielo Drive ?!) in mid/late 1965.

You think John was exposed to any other disturbing revlations that weekend?

I said no, no, no you're wrong
When I was just a boy, everything was right

[Red Lion]

TotalInformation said:

at DORIS DAY'S house

Isnt that interesting.

[BeatlePaul]

Red said:

Isnt that interesting.

Just .... Dig it!

[abbey]

As in dig a grave?

[TotalInformation]

I just wanted to say I have decided to call Sylvie II:

Poly-Vartan

it scans well.

Unpalatable as this may be, we have to seriously consider the possibility that Brian and James Paul schemed to replace a mother of his child with one of Epstein's drag queen boyfriends.

[TotalInformation]

The 45rpm LP in the upper left was a 1966 RCA release. Note the cover sleeve features Vartan's face "under construction."

1- Par amour, Par pitié: France pressed by RCA 1966 #86.187. Vinyl Used condition - Jacket very good just a name is signed on

"For love, For pity"

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=306&item=4035969429&rd=1

2- Vartan Sardou: France pressed by RCA #RC 110. Vinyl very good condition - Jacket Very good condition.

3- La meilleure fille en moi: France pressed by RCA #42117. Vinyl very good condition - Jacket Very good condition, a name is signed.

4- La lettre : France pressed by RCA #42087. Vinyl very good condition - Jacket Very good condition, a name is signed

[abbey]

It still doesn't seem likely that Paul killed anyone. However, if he did Brian would have helped him "clean up the mess", so to speak. But what did they do with the real Sylvie then? Wouldn't carrying the body of a famous singer out the door, especially in her home country, be rather difficult to cover up? In England, Paul's arse would be covered, but not in France. So how could he cover up a killing, accidental killing? I still don't think it fits, but we are all speculating at this point.

However, Sylvie wouldn't have been the first girl to get pregnant so she could trap a man into marriage.

If one of Brian's drag queen friends raised Nicola, where is the kid now? As long as he stayed in France, wouldn't he be able to come forward with the real story if such a scenario occurred?

[TotalInformation]

If one of Brian's drag queen friends raised Nicola, where is the kid now?

If the child pictured getting off the plane with Vartan and Hallyday is indeed McCartney and Vartan's son "Nicola," he wasn't raised by Hallyday & Poly-Vartan, but by adoptive parents in Britain, where he showed up in the MMT film in 1967. He's still around, AFAIK, and was interviewed a few years ago.

We need to figure out if Vartan disappeared from the spotlight for a few months some time in late 1964 to 1965; long enough to have a child.

As to David Hallyday -- is he really Sylvie's son? Perhaps he is Johnny Hallyday's son by another woman. He was supposedly born in August '66. Are there pics of Sylvie -- or Poly-Vartan -- pregnant around then?

Pics of a pregnant Poly-Vartan would point away from the 'drag queen' theory and towards 'woman with mannish face' theory -- but ultimately be of little use unless something akin to Demi-Moore-on-Vanity-Fair pops up...

[abbey]

Total, are you saying they gave the kid a job at AFAIK as a pay off to keep his mouth shut that he is James Paul's son? Do you have a copy of that interview? I would love to read it. Is there a picture of him? Would like to see if he looks like Paul. The little boy in MMT sure didn't look anything like Paul. In fact, when I first saw the movie, I thought it was a girl.....sorry

[TotalInformation]

AFAIK is an old USENET acronym - as far as I know.

And yeah, Litle Nicola was a girl and is still alive, AFAIK. She was raised as Nikki Hale.

So she probably isn't the mysterious child that seems to be a boy in the 1967 airport photo.

They could both be James Paul's kids, though.

[abbey]

Thank you. I thought Nicola was a strange name for a boy. It seemed like a little girl's name and the child in MMT definitely looked female.

Yes, Paul very could have fathered her and a boy. He was called "The Bull". He enjoyed his women and never bothered with anything like a "rubber" (condom). Makes you wonder how many James Paul bastards there really are running around in the US, England, France, Germany, maybe other places, too. Some of the women may have been paid off when James Paul was alive, but after his death, they were all SOL. Blood test or DNA wouldn't work after 1966 as was proven by Bettina in Germany.

I laughing commented to a close frieind that it would be a fun multi-government survey (they waste money on tons of useless surveys anyway) to interview all the women who Paul slept with and how many got pregnant and a collection of pictures of said children.

We could even make it a contest, guessing how many there might be ;D

I still think it is disgusting how easily Peter Asher was bought off. I believe Jane may have been threatened, but I think Peter was easily seduced by the all mighty dollar.

[gracemer]

Let's open up a thread just for Paul's former bed partners to discuss their experiences. ;D ;D