The Manson murders

[beldabeast]

I regret I dont have much time today . The holidays has me very busy at work so here is the short version.

I understand that both Manson and the Beatles had been hanging around the Polankski -Tate house .
What if the Beatles had been commiserating with Terry
Melcher about Doris and Paul and Charlie got wind of the situation and was trying to parlay this info into help with his musical career ?

And you know what ? Looking skeptically at the official story of those killings I don't really LIKE that story .
I mean , come on ! How could Charlie find a bunch of college educated young people THAT stupid ?
Does it really make any sense that a bunch of kids playing counterculture games comprised mostly of upper
middle class FEMALES could be convinced to go slash up a bunch of well known people ? Yeah maybe , but considering other things going on I am beginning to wonder !

[gracemer]

That's the first I've heard that the Beatles were ever at the Polanski house. Do you recollect where you came by that information?

[beldabeast]

gracemer said:

That's the first I've heard that the Beatles were ever at the Polanski house. Do you recollect where you came by that information?

Someone mentioned it here I believe . About a year ago . I definitely remember reading it SOMEWHERE .
The Beatles were said to have been attending drug parties at the house .
George had a bungalow in those LA hills somewhere as well .

All this is just a lot of supposing on my part but consider
this .
Manson was said to be a unskilled , unemployable ,
antisocial street bum .
But yet , he was a compentent musician and songwriter and a ok singer . I have heard his work and his stuff wasn't bad . I have heard a lot worse .

If Manson was a unskilled , unemployable ,antisocial street bum , he was one who cultivated a following and organized his followers into a commune and governed
same and had a economically viable and well organized
unit going there . How does a drifter like Manson was said to be do THAT ? AND at the same time weasel his way into a elite circle like that crowd at the Polanski's
Anyone else getting a case of deja vu ?
To me , Manson doesn't sound like a ineffectual loser ,
he sounds like a government spook .

Considering the character of the attack itself , rich and famous people do not normally hang out in unsecure envirnoments . I find it questionable that a band of people like Mansons minions just waltzed into a exclusive community like that and gained entry and
executed such a one sided slaughter and got cleanly away . I rather tend to think that must have been a trained execution squad .

This doesn't really impact PID as all this is well after the fact .
But suppose the rumor the Beatles had been there was true and they did talk too much and maybe even
Terry Melcher broke down and talked about his mom.
That would electrify the crowd that hung out there and someone didn't keep their mouth shut when they should have .
The next thing that happens is Charlie Manson starts turning up . He recons the situation , then serves as a unwitting patsy . The spooks turn up and do the deed
and they pick up the Manson gang .
This sounds much more plausible that this fantastic tale
about a street creep selling a group of bright college kids a load of guff about Helter Skelter and inducing them to commit a atrocious mass murder . At least ,
I certainly need more than the word of the Nixon led
US Government and the LAPD to accept the idea .

Again , I am just playing what if here and I

[The Taxman]

Actually, belda....that's not bad at all. Seeing that the Black Dahlia murder was covered up all these years and turned out to be done by the father of the cop who solved it...that's strange enough in itself to turn your hair white...but it's not improbable at all, since Melcher was strange enough to know that "kind" of people...the spooks, not Manson...hmmm...without knowing who they were. Rich enough to pull them in with the famous mother/father combo...certainly the one thing I didn't like about the fellows was that they, too, were drawn in by charisma...even their own. George, however, was slightly different in that the US was no mystery to him, since his sister was married and living in St. Louis at the time...still does...hmmm. There's more to this, belda, keep going...

[beldabeast]

The said:

Actually, belda....that's not bad at all. Seeing that the Black Dahlia murder was covered up all these years and turned out to be done by the father of the cop who solved it...that's strange enough in itself to turn your hair white...but it's not improbable at all, since Melcher was strange enough to know that "kind" of people...the spooks, not Manson...hmmm...without knowing who they were. Rich enough to pull them in with the famous mother/father combo...certainly the one thing I didn't like about the fellows was that they, too, were drawn in by charisma...even their own. George, however, was slightly different in that the US was no mystery to him, since his sister was married and living in St. Louis at the time...still does...hmmm. There's more to this, belda, keep going...

Thanks ! .....WOW ! The Black Dahilia case was solved ?!? I google that case once in awhile and I hadn't heard .

Back to the Tate thing . A member of the Beach Boys was also hanging out at the place and we know what happened to the drummer who may have been the same one . I will have to look that one up .

Gee , I don't know but it seems to me if anyone in the entertainment industry was planning to talk the Tate murders wouldn't have cooled their jets .

You may be aware of the Federal Communications Commission's campaign to fine networks millions of dollars for obscenity on the airwaves . I think that is a excuse to put a delay on all television live broadcasts so the content can always be edited .
I am betting the only reason Janet Jackson and Timerlake did what they did at the Superbowl was that they were ordered to.
I can not help but think the administrations need for secrecy has a lot to do with all this .

[abbey]

Belda - I've been fascinated with the Manson case for a very long time! To me, that is some coincidence. What a minute - there ARE no coincidences
Seriously, I can see the validity of every point you have made !
Those poor people. They never knew what hit them. So, they killed the La ( Lo ? ) Bianca's just to make the manson case more believable ?
It's scary how cold & calculated all of these events appear to be.
I wouldn't be surprised if the beings behind it ALL are reptilian in nature.

WHY NOT ?!

[beldabeast]

Sister said:

Belda - I've been fascinated with the Manson case for a very long time! To me, that is some coincidence. What a minute - there ARE no coincidences
Seriously, I can see the validity of every point you have made !
Those poor people. They never knew what hit them. So, they killed the La ( Lo ? ) Bianca's just to make the manson case more believable ?
It's scary how cold & calculated all of these events appear to be.
I wouldn't be surprised if the beings behind it ALL are reptilian in nature.

WHY NOT ?!

Hello again first of all !

My recollection of the La Bianca killings are rather foggy.
But I do recall the discovery of the door from the
La Bianca residence that had the word " piggies" written in blood which had been removed and stored in the LAPD evidence room or SOME evidence room at least . Sounds like a bunch of dis -information to me when I think about it .

I like to put myself in the story when I examine the offical accounting and in this way see if the story retains a sense of reality VS just recieving the info like taking dication .
I can't see myself accepting Mansons directions with a snappy salute and making the long drive from Shortys Ranch to Cielio drive in LA and maintaining a head of steam enough to slash up a bunch of people wwith whom I have no rational beef ,I don't care HOW MUCH
weed I've been smoking . I might have let the air out of their tires and that would have been about it and I am from Texas .
I know those counter culture types tended to sometimes do strange and self destructive things
but murder is a different kettle of fish altogether .
Further , the caper was just too deadly efficent
for amatures . There are just too many things WRONG with the story . It just doesn't compute .
I would LOVE to talk with members of Mansons family or Manson himself , but I doubt emailing any of them would be wise .

[beldabeast]

I think I may be violating a rule about posting LONG excerpts from a web article . But no direct link exists and this is so VITAL I feel I must do so .
Begging the admins patience if there is such a rule I plead service of our cause .

Rethinking the Manson Murders

The lives of Roman Polanski and countless rock stars were dramatically impacted by the notorious Manson Murders. On August 9, 1969, the body of Polanski’s beautiful young wife, Sharon Tate, was found at the couple’s rented Los Angeles residence which was owned by record producer Terry Melcher, the son of actress Doris Day. Other murder victims found at Melcher’s property were Abigail Folger, Voytek Frykowki, Jay Sebring, and Steven Parent. They had all been brutally murdered in a ritualistic manner. The next day (August 10, 1969), the bodies of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca were found in their Los Angeles home; they had been murdered in a similar manner. Ten days earlier, (July 31, 1969), the mutilated body of Gary Hinman was found at 946 Old Topanga Canyon Rd., Los Angeles, California. Hinman’s body contained multiple stab wounds; he had been dead several days. The people convicted of committing the crimes—Charlie Manson and members of his commune—were stereotypical of the Sixties youth culture.

More investigation is certainly needed regarding the Manson murders, but my research indicates that Charlie Manson and his followers were probably patsies. It is possible, however, that Manson was a paid government informant, similar to Lee Harvey Oswald, although I do not believe Manson was an active participant in a conspiracy to murder Tate, Folger, Frykowki, Sebring, Parent, Hinman, and Leno and Rosemary LaBianca. Although Manson had spent years in and out of prisons, jails, and reform schools prior to the gruesome murders, he had no history of committing violent crimes.* The reason he was incarcerated so often was because his mother had abandoned him as a child, and he became a ward of the state. Violence was never part of his make up. He mainly engaged in petty larceny as a means of obtaining food and shelter. In fact, his last six-year prison term at the Federal Penitentiary at Terminal Island, San Pedro, California (from 1961 through 1967) was for cashing a government check worth $37.50.29 (See Chapter 9.)

It seems quite odd that someone like Manson would mastermind a grisly mass-murder when his most serious conviction in the past had been car theft. The so-called "Manson Murders" were completely out of character with Manson’s history. He was not a violent person. This is a major reason to suspect Manson was working as an FBI informant, was likely operating on a "need to know" basis, probably manipulated into taking the fall for the crimes, along with several members of his commune. Another reason to suspect Manson was an informant is because he stated in his book, Manson: In His Own Words (1986, co-authored with Nuel Emmons), that he asked to remain in prison when his sentence ended at Terminal Island, San Pedro, California on March 21, 1967. (See Chapter 9.) Unbelievable as it seems, Manson claims he asked not to be released, but the officer he spoke with laughed and ignored his request. But knowing Manson’s background, his desire to stay at Terminal Island is quite understandable. In March of 1967, he was 32 years old and had spent 17 years—over half his life—in various reform schools, jails and prisons since the age of twelve. Prison life was all he knew.

The reason he wanted to remain incarcerated was because he liked the facilities at Terminal Island, plus he had failed all his life at trying to make it as a free man on the outside. As a boy, Manson had lived for three years in a nightmarish reform school: The Indiana School for Boys at Plainfield, Indiana, where he was once the victim of a homosexual gang rape by four older teenage inmates. At the same school, he was physically and psychologically abused by several sadistic guards on a regular basis. To Manson, the federal prison at Terminal Island was Heaven compared to the Indiana School for Boys. At Terminal Island, Manson studied Scientology, taught himself to play guitar, sang and wrote songs, and performed his music for the inmates whenever possible. He felt he had a home at Terminal Island and a lot of people there liked and respected him.

In addition, Manson stated that he was acquainted with Mafia boss Frank Costello while serving time at The Federal Reformatory at Chillicothe, Ohio.30 Costello was a notorious American gangster, noted for his influence with politicians, and close associate of Lucky Luciano. Costello and Luciano were also associates of Meyer Lansky, considered by many to be one of the most powerful mobsters in America after Luciano’s death in 1962. In 1979 the House Select Committee on Assassinations, ending its two-year investigation of the Warren Commission report, linked Lansky with Jack Ruby, the nightclub owner who killed President Kennedy’s accused assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.31 In my book, Opium Lords, I assert that Oswald was a patsy, and Lansky was recruited by J. Edgar Hoover to hire French Corsican assassins to kill Kennedy. (See Appendix M: Organizational Chart of JFK Conspiracy.) It is important to remember that the notorious Manson murders occurred just six and a half years after JFK’s assassination, so most of the people involved in Kennedy’s murder were still alive and well when Sharon Tate was killed. Manson’s friendship with Frank Costello potentially places him at the center of Meyer Lansky’s criminal enterprise which included providing hit men for the FBI.

Manson also claimed he befriended Ma Barker’s gunman Alvin "Creepy" Karpis while serving time at McNeil Island in Washington state.32 To my knowledge, Charlie Manson has never publicly stated having any association with Meyer Lansky or Lucky Luciano, only that he knew Frank Costello and gunman Alvin "Creepy" Karpis in prison. Perhaps Charlie was unaware of Costello’s association with Lansky, and he likely did not know of Lansky’s involvement in the Kennedy assassination. More research is needed to determine the precise nature of Manson’s connection to the mob, and possibly the FBI, after his release from Terminal Island in 1967. But Charlie’s admissions that he had befriended Frank Costello and Alvin "Creepy" Karpis certainly suggest he might have been manipulated by powerful mob figures possibly working at the behest of the FBI. Whether Charlie was a bona fide FBI informant remains a question. But given the FBI’s apparent relationship with the mob, and given Manson’s desire to remain at Terminal Island when his sentence was completed in 1967, and given Manson’s non-violent history, it is quite possible that a deal was struck where he promised to help assist the feds in exchange for free room and board for the rest of his life at a federal prison. Again, I do not believe Manson was aware that he was helping the feds in a plot to commit mass-murder. If he did in fact work as an informant, he likely viewed himself as a mercenary; just following orders. Plus, the FBI is, after all, an agency of the United States government. Consequently, Manson may have felt he was being patriotic.

[beldabeast]

Here is the rest . Again , apologies !


The Spiral Staircase

In Chapter 9, I described how Charlie Manson and members of his commune lived, off and on, at a bizarre house in a section of Los Angeles known as Topanga Canyon. Manson and his friends nicknamed the house the "Spiral Staircase" because of the circular stairs at the entrance of the residence. The Spiral Staircase has all the signs of an intelligence operation, a hippie front for an FBI operation designed to discredit rock. It was probably infested with informants who practiced a Satanic form of witchcraft that, according to Manson, included a high degree of LSD use, free sex, orgies, whipping sexual partners with chains, animal sacrifices and drinking animal blood for sexual gratification.

Again, more investigation is needed, but my research indicates that The Spiral Staircase was probably a Gothic mansion once owned by actor Bela Lugosi. My research further indicates that a popular LA rock group, Love, lived at the Lugosi mansion in the late Sixties. In fact, many of Love’s publicity photos show the band standing on a spiral staircase and it has been reported by rock critics that such photos were taken at the band’s LA residence, formerly Lugosi’s mansion. (See Chapter 14.) That raises another question. Why would Love be living in a place infested with FBI informants? Were they unaware, or were they working for the feds as well? The latter scenario is quite plausible; however, I have found no direct evidence that Love’s founder, Arthur Lee, was an active participant in a conspiracy to murder Sharon Tate and the others.

There are lots of reasons to suspect the Satanic mansion in Topanga Canyon was an intelligence operation, likely an FBI front. First, Topanga Canyon was geographically located at the heart of the L.A. rock music scene in the Sixties. Love, Canned Heat, Gram Parsons, Chris Hillman, Jim Morrison, David Crosby, Jackson Brown, and a host of other well-known rockers lived in the Topanga Canyon area. It is geographically close to the Sunset Strip, close to RCA Records’ west coast office, which had a well-known recording studio downstairs. The Rolling Stones recorded "Let’s Spend the Night Together" and "Paint it Black" in that studio. Other artists who recorded there included Elvis Presley, the Jefferson Airplane, and the Grateful Dead. Barney’s Beanery is nearby.* 9000 Sunset Boulevard was also nearby. Billboard magazine’s office was there. Former Beatles’ publicist Derek Taylor's (Byrds, Doors, Captain Beefheart, Beach Boys, etc. manager) had an office there as well.33

Second, Alan Wilson was found dead in a sleeping bag in Topanga Canyon in 1970. Wilson was rhythm guitarist, singer, harmonica player, and songwriter for blues/rock band, Canned Heat. He and singer Bob Hite were blues historians/musicians who co-founded Canned Heat in the mid-Sixties. Wilson had been staying at Hite’s home in Topanga Canyon when he died. (See Chapter 12.) Years later, Bob Hite claimed he had partied with members of the Manson Family (see Chapter 13), something that is completely believable since Hite lived near Manson’s former stomping ground, the Spiral Staircase in Topanga Canyon. Third, Gary Hinman’s mutilated body was found at his home in Topango Canyon on July 31, 1969. Hinman was the first victim of the notorious Manson Murders. Guitarist Bobby Beausoleil was later convicted—along with Susan Atkins and Mary Brunner—of murdering Hinman. Beausoleil had played rhythm guitar with the rock group Love several years prior (around 1965).

According to Beausoleil, Love’s leader Arthur Lee decided to use Byran MacLean for the rhythm guitar slot, instead of Beausoleil, because MacLean had been a roadie for the Byrds, a connection that could potentially open many doors for Love. Beausoleil also claimed that Arthur Lee changed the group’s name to Love as a way of showing respect to Beausoleil, whose nickname was "Cupid."34 Although some will deny Beausoleil’s version of events, his story seems quite believable. Even L.A. District Attorney Vincent Bugliosi (the man who prosecuted Manson and his followers) corroborated Beausoleil’s nickname was Cupid in Bugliosi’s renowned book, Helter Skelter: The True Story of the Manson Murders.35 Manson claims he met Beausoleil at the Spiral Staircase, which is completely believable since Love apparently lived there.

A fourth reason to believe the Spiral Staircase was an FBI front is the Jim Morrison connection. In the late Sixties, Morrison bought his longtime girlfriend Pamela Courson a cottage in Topanga Canyon. In addition, Morrison was good friends with Arthur Lee, leader of the LA rock group Love who apparently lived at the Spiral Staircase. These things drew Morrison closer into Charlie Manson’s world. In fact, Lee was reportedly instrumental in getting the Doors signed by Elektra Records. Morrison must have been devastated to learn of Jay Sebring’s brutal murder at Sharon Tate’s home around August 9, 1969. Morrison was acquainted with Sebring, a well-known Hollywood hair stylist, who in 1967—at Morrison’s request—cut the famous rock star’s hair to look like Alexander the Great. Morrison’s hairstyle, care of Sebring, was an important part of the singer’s image when the Doors first rose to national prominence in 1967 with their hit single, "Light My Fire."

So it appears that the FBI had set up an operation—a spy ring, for lack of a better term—in the heart of the L.A. music scene, in the gothic mansion, formerly owned by Bela Lugosi, and nicknamed the Spiral Staircase by Charlie Manson and his friends.

[beldabeast]

gracemer said:

That's the first I've heard that the Beatles were ever at the Polanski house. Do you recollect where you came by that information?

AH HA !!!!! Found it !


Beatles often stayed at Tate residence (?)

In the famous 1970 Rolling Stone interview, Lennon suggested that he, George Harrison and Ringo Starr took their second LSD trip at Doris Day’s house in California while touring with the Beatles. He may have been referring, unwittingly, to 10050 Cielo Drive, Bel Air, Los Angeles, California, the house where Sharon Tate and four others were murdered. As previously stated, Doris Day’s son, Terry Melcher, had allowed Roman Polankski and his wife, Sharon Tate, to take over his unexpired lease about six months prior to the murders.49 Here is what Lennon said about his first and second experiences with LSD:



A dentist in London…laid it [first LSD pills] on George, me and our wives [Cynthia Powell Lennon and Patty Boyd Harrison] without telling us at a dinner party at his house [in London]… And then, well, we just decided to take it again in California…We were on tour, in one of those houses, like Doris Day’s house or wherever it was we used to stay. And the three of us took it. Ringo, George and I. I think maybe Neil [Aspinall, a roadie]. And a couple of the Byrds…[David] Crosby and the other guy, who used to be the leader…[Roger] McGuinn. I think they came round, I’m not sure, on a few trips.50




Lennon’s memory of his second LSD trip was a bit fussy, but he mentioned some interesting people and places: Doris Day’s house, the Byrds. Earlier I mentioned that Terry Melcher produced the Byrds’ first two albums. As stated before, Melcher’s mother is Doris Day. Sharon Tate and her four companions were killed at a house in LA where Melcher had lived six months earlier. It might have been owned by Melcher’s mom, or maybe Lennon knew she was connected with the house somehow, so he referred to it as Doris Day’s house. Not only does Lennon unwittingly suggest that he and two other Beatles—George and Ringo—took their second acid trip in the house where Sharon Tate was murdered, he further intimates that the Beatles stayed at that house quite often while touring California. Here is the key statement again: "We were on tour, in one of those houses, like Doris Day’s house or wherever it was we used to stay." The words "wherever it was we used to stay" describe a place the Beatles stayed at frequently while on tour.

[abbey]

Why THAT house. VERY interesting !

[beldabeast]

Sister said:

Why THAT house. VERY interesting !

It goes back to my question which I copied and pasted below from a earlier post to save you the trouble of looking for it ...................................

( Start )

But suppose the rumor the Beatles had been there was true and they did talk too much and maybe even
Terry Melcher broke down and talked about his mom.
That would electrify the crowd that hung out there and someone didn't keep their mouth shut when they should have .
The next thing that happens is Charlie Manson starts turning up . He recons the situation , then serves as a unwitting patsy . The spooks turn up and do the deed
and they pick up the Manson gang .
This sounds much more plausible that this fantastic tale
about a street creep selling a group of bright college kids a load of guff about Helter Skelter and inducing them to commit a atrocious mass murder . At least ,
I certainly need more than the word of the Nixon led
US Government and the LAPD to accept the idea .

Again , I am just playing what if here and I .... (END)

[abbey]

Sounds very plausible. However, it seems that they didn't get the ones who were doing the "talking".
Do you suppose that this was on purpose ? It was done to scare the bejeesus out of Terry Melcher & the other Beatles ?!

[Mad John]

Belda, Sounds very interesting! Hard to pin exactly what went on in that CIRCLE! That was the web of all webs and many important/famous people connect here, from politics to the music industry.

I will in the future try to pull together connections to the Manson murders....but it is before they occured.

Ed Wood Jr is connected to Charles Addams. Addams was the designer for "Vampira" , the 1950's late night television spook host. The image for Vampira was strictly taken from underground S&M magazines. Vampira was the true queen of GOTHIC! She sported a 13 inch waste and had to fast to be just right for the show. She claims that she would go into a trance and look into the camera and pretend that she was talking to one person, and that she was hypnotizing them and controling thier souls! She said that she got mail that people had actuwally been hypnotized.

Charles Addams was the creator of the comic strip, "The Addams Family" , which in 1964 (a good year to keep in mind) became the popular television series, "The Addams Family." That show did not just come about on some wim! The Addams Family was one of the first Occult series to outwardly celebrate the BACKWARDS LOGIC OF DEATH AND DARKNESS (more especially.)

Bela is seriously connected to Ed Wood Jr. Lugosi was in three films of Wood's, "Glen or Glenda" (1953) a hard core story of a Transvestite (played in real role manner by Ed himself) , "Bride Of The Monster" and the classic turkey (and a fav of Mad John's) "Plan 9 From Outer Space." Lagosi is a powerful occult figure and I believe his decent to LOW BUDGET HORROR was a design by the controllers. By creating a cheap aspect in horror and sci fi (I am refering to the first wave of this, in the early 1940s) , the occult could certainly be laughed at.....and this is precisely what happened in the 1950's, both to cheap horror and science fiction! Lagosi (outside of Dracula) was considered a has been actor and considered non threatning, however he is also one of the most IMITATED LIKENESSES in the world of horror. He provided an outlet for the world to view mad scientists and monsters with humor and sympathy.

In this same world on another link is Roger Corman and Vincent Price. At another time I will really get more into these people, but let me tantalize you with this:

WITCHCRAFT is what made the Corman films and even they later tie in to Manson (believe it or not.) The 1960's was a very interesting time for the BLACK MAGIC CHESS MOVES! Everything was closing in at the begining of the decade and completly imploded by 1969 with the Manson Murders, Woodstock and Man faking the MOON LANDING....hey, Que sera, sera!

Floyd Crosby, the great cinematographer, was on a main stay with Roger Corman in the 60's and made many many occult films (most of which I am in possesion of.) Floyd Crosby is the father of David Crosby and both were seriously involved in WITCHCRAFT!

1964 was the year an interesting film was produced by Corman, with Crosby as camera man, entittled, "The Masque Of Red Death." It was a special film out of the Poe series that they were doing. For one, it was filmed in England, where all the other films were produced in Hollywood. England is a Sataic capital of Witches and they needed elements of realism that the English culture could provide (no, I am not kidding!) All of Corman's films were noted for there compact two week production time lines. In the case of "Masque" , an extra 2 weeks was required. The story was about DEVIL WORSHIP, a far cry from Poe's original story!

The Manson murders and The Beatles tie in at this jucncture:

1964 "The Masque Of Red Death" was produced. It is a film about murder, plague and DEVIL WORSHIP.

The co star is no other than James Paul McCartney girlfriend, JANE ASHER!

Jane Asher was in a very special and specific occult film about Devil worship.......and that is all I shall state for now!

Love,
Mad John

[beldabeast]

Mad said:

Belda, Sounds very interesting! Hard to pin exactly what went on in that CIRCLE! That was the web of all webs and many important/famous people connect here, from politics to the music industry.

I will in the future try to pull together connections to the Manson murders....but it is before they occured.

Ed Wood Jr is connected to Charles Addams. Addams was the designer for "Vampira" , the 1950's late night television spook host. The image for Vampira was strictly taken from underground S&M magazines. Vampira was the true queen of GOTHIC! She sported a 13 inch waste and had to fast to be just right for the show. She claims that she would go into a trance and look into the camera and pretend that she was talking to one person, and that she was hypnotizing them and controling thier souls! She said that she got mail that people had actuwally been hypnotized.

Charles Addams was the creator of the comic strip, "The Addams Family" , which in 1964 (a good year to keep in mind) became the popular television series, "The Addams Family." That show did not just come about on some wim! The Addams Family was one of the first Occult series to outwardly celebrate the BACKWARDS LOGIC OF DEATH AND DARKNESS (more especially.)

Bela is seriously connected to Ed Wood Jr. Lugosi was in three films of Wood's, "Glen or Glenda" (1953) a hard core story of a Transvestite (played in real role manner by Ed himself) , "Bride Of The Monster" and the classic turkey (and a fav of Mad John's) "Plan 9 From Outer Space." Lagosi is a powerful occult figure and I believe his decent to LOW BUDGET HORROR was a design by the controllers. By creating a cheap aspect in horror and sci fi (I am refering to the first wave of this, in the early 1940s) , the occult could certainly be laughed at.....and this is precisely what happened in the 1950's, both to cheap horror and science fiction! Lagosi (outside of Dracula) was considered a has been actor and considered non threatning, however he is also one of the most IMITATED LIKENESSES in the world of horror. He provided an outlet for the world to view mad scientists and monsters with humor and sympathy.

In this same world on another link is Roger Corman and Vincent Price. At another time I will really get more into these people, but let me tantalize you with this:

WITCHCRAFT is what made the Corman films and even they later tie in to Manson (believe it or not.) The 1960's was a very interesting time for the BLACK MAGIC CHESS MOVES! Everything was closing in at the begining of the decade and completly imploded by 1969 with the Manson Murders, Woodstock and Man faking the MOON LANDING....hey, Que sera, sera!

Floyd Crosby, the great cinematographer, was on a main stay with Roger Corman in the 60's and made many many occult films (most of which I am in possesion of.) Floyd Crosby is the father of David Crosby and both were seriously involved in WITCHCRAFT!

1964 was the year an interesting film was produced by Corman, with Crosby as camera man, entittled, "The Masque Of Red Death." It was a special film out of the Poe series that they were doing. For one, it was filmed in England, where all the other films were produced in Hollywood. England is a Sataic capital of Witches and they needed elements of realism that the English culture could provide (no, I am not kidding!) All of Corman's films were noted for there compact two week production time lines. In the case of "Masque" , an extra 2 weeks was required. The story was about DEVIL WORSHIP, a far cry from Poe's original story!

The Manson murders and The Beatles tie in at this jucncture:

1964 "The Masque Of Red Death" was produced. It is a film about murder, plague and DEVIL WORSHIP.

The co star is no other than James Paul McCartney girlfriend, JANE ASHER!

Jane Asher was in a very special and specific occult film about Devil worship.......and that is all I shall state for now!

Love,
Mad John

Good stuff ! Here is more interesting info on manson -beatles www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/contents.htm

Terry Melcher was connected with intelligence , I believe .
The too talkative young people at the Tate house were all slain which had the effect of scaring the entertainment community into silence .

That LA scene is very dodgy with the entertainers all being based there and the CIA infiltrated LAPD being there to keep them in line .
I will bet theyve fed sleeping pills to more movie stars than you can shake a stick at !

I just dont buy the idea that a bunch of kids playing hippie would have what it takes to commit those murders .

[abbey]

MJ & Belda - great job, guys ! ;D
I also have a hard time believing that those young kids brutally murdered those people. They must've been hypnotized/ programmed to believe that they did. They were true patsys !

[beldabeast]

Sister said:

MJ & Belda - great job, guys ! ;D
I also have a hard time believing that those young kids brutally murdered those people. They must've been hypnotized/ programmed to believe that they did. They were true patsys !

Yeah ! Once we unprogram ourselves these things become obvious .

[Mad John]

Belda, hey that's some great reading on Lennon! I will have to read the whole thing....looks very interesting.

What about the film, "Helter Skelter?" I have not seen that film in many years, but I plan on getting the new DVD to check out. How relavent do you feel the information is in the film? That was the first time I heard a clear explanation on the tie in with Manson/Beatles/White Album/Bible. Breast plates discribed in the bible and revealed as posssibly being The Beatles guitars, ect.....and all of that.

I am going to go read that Lennon stuff, thanks for the great link there Belda!

Love,
Mad John

[beldabeast]

Mad said:

Belda, hey that's some great reading on Lennon! I will have to read the whole thing....looks very interesting.

What about the film, "Helter Skelter?" I have not seen that film in many years, but I plan on getting the new DVD to check out. How relavent do you feel the information is in the film? That was the first time I heard a clear explanation on the tie in with Manson/Beatles/White Album/Bible. Breast plates discribed in the bible and revealed as posssibly being The Beatles guitars, ect.....and all of that.

I am going to go read that Lennon stuff, thanks for the great link there Belda!

Love,
Mad John

That is some dang interesting reading there !
Goes into the Melcher -Manson- Beatles links
quite deeply . Melcher and Manson had evidently been connected for quite some time .

The ONLY big problem I see is that Manson evidently wounded this black drug pusher . There may have been
extenuating circumstances , but it IS a indication he is capable of violent behavior . Otherwise , he doesn't seem to be .

I think John Lennon was trying to tip a ever dense public the Beatles were at the Tate house with his
" I think we were at Doris Day's house or SOMEplace like that ( hint , hint , wink , wink ) that statement probally put him on a few dung lists .

Helter Skelter ? That made for TV movie released in the late 70's ??
I think it was just a faithful recitation of government dis -information .
I can't believe I am actually defending Charles Manson , of all people but I honestly feel he had nothing to do with it .
I think he was a paid FBI informant recruited for his musical ability ( which was considerable ) and his personal magnetisn . The fact he was a creature of the streets was a added bonus .
He was put in touch with Melcher ( also a government spook ) to help promote a musical career and was asked to hang out at Melchers leased house thereby being set up as a patsy for the Tate murders .
The thing I don't understand is the drug dealer shooting . I am wondering if he really did it or if that was a set -up so the state could say that Melcher backed off from promoting him giving Manson a motive for the killings .
Manson himself says he knew the family would probally kill someone and he should have done more to stop it but I feel he was forced to say this .

I am still in the early stages of my investigation into this matter , but I feel I have it doped out pretty well
although I must point out I am mainly relying on logic
and vague and imperfect recollections . Still , everything seems to be falling into place .
But right now ? I would guess the Tate murders are directly connected to PID , indeed were caused by them.

[abbey]

How truly horrible. It just gets more & more extensive & horrible every day that passes

[beldabeast]

Sister said:

How truly horrible. It just gets more & more extensive & horrible every day that passes

It all goes back to my theory that the mass media is used as a conditioning tool . By putting out the unbelievable as the truth .
And by creating alarm over non-existent threats .
And by directing attention from real threats .

As a aside , I am sick to death of American news , which I call the SCN ( Squawking Chicken Network )
Seems everyday we are being breathlessly informed some the dire crisis of the day , only to soon be forgottenand replaced with tomorrows BIG melodrama.
Worse , when something really important is going on the news starts talking about Michael Jackson or the Dixie Chicks .
I just reach for the remote and turn that sh*t off .

[abbey]

How True !

[semolinapilchard]

Just a couple thoughts on the bizzare "coincidences" in the whole Polanski > Beatles > Manson connections...

1. First off, we have the Doris / Fauris, or as the Beastie Boys say..." Doris the Finkasaurus"

2. Her son Terry Melcher, who must have known about his own mother, an independant record producer who worked with Apple records on occasion.

3. The CIA mind control LSD experiments , possibly Melcher was involved in "turning on" the Beatles, maybe he was some kind of mole along with Polanski.

4. Paul and Brian may have "known too much", or maybe they all were and Paul and Brian's deaths served as a warning.

5. John was introduced to Yoko who may have been his handler...he was brainwashed, but it started to wear off in the '70's and he was about to spill the beans. Oh, yeah, and John and Yoko lived at the Dakota where "Rosemary's Baby" was filmed. By the way, Anton LaVey started the Church of Satan in 1966 a month after John Lennon said the bigger than Jesus thing. Anton was in the film "Rosemary's Baby", uncredited, as the Devil's eyes. Anton also knew Kenneth Anger who directed Bobby Beausoleil in Lucifer Rising right before he joined the Manson gang.
Also John was shot right where the first victim dies in "Rosemary's Baby"

6. Helter Skelter...something designed to implicate the Beatles in this mess, somehow.

I'm sure ther's more, but it really boggles the mind!

[gracemer]

This subject has been covered exhaustively at:

60if.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=document&action=display&thread=1073776240

There's a lot of information. It's my belief that Doris Day never lived at the Cielo Drive address. I could be wrong. Keep going, but take a look at what we already have.

[beldabeast]

gracemer said:

This subject has been covered exhaustively at:

60if.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=document&action=display&thread=1073776240

There's a lot of information. It's my belief that Doris Day never lived at the Cielo Drive address. I could be wrong. Keep going, but take a look at what we already have.

Will do ! I agree that Doris never stayed at the Cielo house . John was trying to telegraph in a veiled way
the Beatles stayed at the Tate house , which was originally leased and SUB LEASED to Polanski .
John said something like " We sometimes stayed at some place like Doris Days house - I THINK that is where it was , or SOMEPLACE like that . ( hint , hint , wink , wink ) He didnt want to come out and say directly that he had been at the Tate murder house .

As an aside , I was musing today the Tate murders and Chappaqiddick and the first moon shot all happened in the summer of 69 if memory serves .