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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jul 2, 2006 18:27:49 GMT
Someone probably just peed in the batter....
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Post by unrepentant on Jul 2, 2006 19:18:52 GMT
could you copy paste it or share some of the weirdness with us??
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jul 2, 2006 19:58:30 GMT
Jojo tried to post some on page one of this thread, but I guess it's hard to get a decent image.
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Post by beatled on Jul 3, 2006 3:35:54 GMT
Just an FYI Byrds, the Glowing Pepper is indeed from Scranton. Telling which factory is a simple matter, they put a symbol in the dead wax depending on where; in the case of Scranton a triangle with "IAM" in the middle. If the astronaut bought the album on the first day of release in LA, it stands to reason his copy was from the LA factory..
I'd give a link here, but it seems the site where I originally found this is no more, glad I saved this:
THE COVERS
East coast covers differ from west coast covers in several subtle ways.
In most cases the original artwork was delivered to the East coast printers first, resulting in clearer images and truer colors on east coast printings
Although not always consistent, the small numbers printed next to the RIAA seal can help determine when and where a record was pressed.
Numbers 2,3,4,5,6,7 are always from the mid 60s
Numbers 9,11,12,16 can be from the later 60s/early 70s.
Numbers 17,18,21 are usually always early to late 70s. ( Strangely, 19 can be from the 60s )
East coast pressings are usually marked with the numbers #2 , #3 ( Scranton) and #4 ( Jacksonville), or the absence of any number at all.
West coast pressings are marked with the numbers #5, #6, and #7.( Los Angeles)
THE RECORDS
The records also give some clues as to the time and place of production. There is still much confusion regarding the actual prefix to numbers in the dead wax however there are symbols that clearly show factory origin.
A small Triangle containing the letters IAM denotes the Scranton Factory
A Small " snowflake" type logo denotes Los Angeles
A circle, sometimes broken ( ) denotes Jacksonville
During times of great demand it was also not unusual to find LPs subcontracted to other record manufacturers most notably, RCA and Decca.
RCA pressings usually have a small "R" or the full " RCA" in the dead wax. and the circular depression in the label is much larger than that of Capitol's
Decca is harder to determine as far as markings, however the circular depression in the label is somewhat smaller that Capitol's.
THE LABELS
West coast labels tend to have more " elongated " print than those of east coast origin. Jacksonville labels are characterized by extremely small print, especially on the " Revolver" LP.
Labels showing Capitol as a " Subsidiary " are not original pressings , and were released approximately around 1968.
INNER SLEEVES
Most Beatle albums were packaged with a Capitol Inner Sleeve. These sleeves also help to date Lps as well as show factory origin.
Stating in 1964 with the Meet the Beatles LP, Capitol used a darker blue inner sleeve . Factory designation 12-TC-1. Later in the year the color became a somewhat brighter blue.
By the end of 1964 the blue sleeve was replaced by a rust or orange red " teen set " sleeve. Factory designation PE-12-2AS ( Scranton) or PE 12-2AL ( Los Angeles)
By about the time of the " Help" LP, Capitol replaced the orange sleeve with a lime or olive green inner sleeve promoting "Capitol's New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo" Factory designations were (PE 12-2ES) Scranton, (PE 12-2BL) Los Angeles, and the new factory in Jacksonville, IL (PE 12-2EJ). Later east coast copies have a black bar at the bottom of the sleeve
The orange "Capitol '66" sleeve replaced the olive colored '65 sleeve early in 1966. Again there exist copies for each factory, numbered PE 12-2FS (Scranton), PE 12-3BL (Los Angeles), and PE 12-2FJ (Jacksonville).
At the end of 1967 Capitol began using plain white inner sleeves. However there are examples of a tan sleeve showing "Rubber Soul", "Yesterday and Today", and "Revolver" as well as many other Capitol releases being used in this time period. The Scranton copies of the sleeve are numbered PE 12-4BS, with LA copies having the designation PE 12-4BL, and Jacksonville copies being called PE 12-4BJ.
SGT PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND
First pressings omit the Maclen Music copyright statement in the lower right hand corner of the back cover and do not have "© 1967 NEMS" anywhere on the back cover.
Transitional pressings from late 1967 to mid-1968 have the copyright to NEMS added along the spine or down at the bottom left or bottom right corner of the back cover.
Pressings from 1968 on have both the NEMS and Maclen copyrights.
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Post by LUCY on Jul 3, 2006 4:36:10 GMT
Just an FYI Byrds, the Glowing Pepper is indeed from Scranton. Telling which factory is a simple matter, they put a symbol in the dead wax................ A small Triangle containing the letters IAM denotes the Scranton Factory how interesting.........
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Post by LUCY on Jul 3, 2006 4:52:50 GMT
possibly ........... but I once saw Jesus's face in a used hamburger wrapper too. Or was it Elvis?. ;D Funny, but whatever you saw in the wrapper wasn't the result of deliberate planning..Would most here agree that the entire album, from cover art to gatefold to song listing are as such? As a side note, records made from styrene instead of vinyl do glow yellow under a black light, but not with this striking pattern. I have no clue how they did it, or why it still works after almost 40 years. Hopefully it isn't because of something with a long half life? .........since there is no other comparison of the pattern, to date that I know of, another piece can be can be either exactly the same, slightly different: but with a repiticous pattern compareable, or completely different in every way. I'm thinking the pattern looks like an oil on water effect, but at varied speeds of reaction................
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jul 3, 2006 23:05:54 GMT
JoJo, Thank you for the information regarding the record pressings. Why am I not surprised that your "psychedelic" platter came from "the electric city"? I'll have to point that out to someone up there. It's probably been forgotten.
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Post by unrepentant on Jul 4, 2006 2:03:40 GMT
i've always wondered if there were any CAPITOL inner sleeves showing the butcher cover among all the other featured albums.....
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jul 4, 2006 13:32:01 GMT
I'll look through my albums, but I don't expect to see it, because the outcry at the time was almost instantaneous, as was the removal of it from the record shelves.
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Post by LUCY on Jul 5, 2006 4:22:36 GMT
Just an FYI Byrds, the Glowing Pepper is indeed from Scranton. Telling which factory is a simple matter, they put a symbol in the dead wax................ A small Triangle containing the letters IAM denotes the Scranton Factory how interesting......... this bugs me...........there's more here........keep digging.......
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jul 5, 2006 12:06:47 GMT
I'm not surre what you mean, Lucy, but this: "A small Triangle containing the letters IAM denotes the Scranton Factory" struck me as odd. Why "I am"? But it probably means something like "international association of machinists" or something.
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Post by LUCY on Jul 8, 2006 3:02:48 GMT
I'm not surre what you mean, Lucy, but this: "A small Triangle containing the letters IAM denotes the Scranton Factory" struck me as odd. Why "I am"? But it probably means something like "international association of machinists" or something. so far I find: nternational Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, AFL-CIO District 751 represents the 45,000 active, retired and laid off hourly workers at The Boeing Company in Puget Sound, GKN in Kent, Triumph Composites in Spokane and BAE in Everett. nahhhhh............ or:http://ll2462.goiam.org/index.htm www.goiam.org/microsites/templates/template_1/1_blue//images/Iamlogotop.gifnot formed until 1971, anyway closer, yet what is this aerospace connection? oh and this too: I am that I am Wikipedia, "I am that I am (Hebrew:, pronounced Ehyeh asher ehyeh) is one English translation of the response God used in the Bible when Moses asked for his name (Exodus 3:14). It is one of the most famous verses in the Old Testament. Hayah means "existed" or "was" in Hebrew; "ehyeh" is the first person singular present/future form. Ehyeh asher ehyeh is generally interpreted to mean I am that I am (King James Bible and others), yet, as indicated, is most literally translated as "I-shall-be who I-shall-be." The word Ehyeh is used a total of 43 places in the Old Testament, where it is usually translated as "I will be" -- as is the case for its first occurrence, in Exodus 3:12 -- or "I shall be," as is the case for its final occurrence in Zechariah 8:8. The Tetragrammaton itself may derive from the same verbal root. It stems from the Hebrew conception of monotheism that God exists within each and everyone and by himself, the uncreated Creator who does not depend on anything or anyone; therefore I am who I am. Contents [hide] 1 Hebrew grammatical tense and purported implication 2 Catholic Church interpretation 2.1 "A God merciful and gracious" 3 Kabbalist interpretation 4 Other views 5 Assyrians (aramaic speaking minority) interpretation of the phrase 6 See also 7 External links [edit] Hebrew grammatical tense and purported implication Theologians have many different explanations for the meaning behind this phrase. Many theologians explain that I am that I am is better translated to I be that I be. The ancient hebrew language does not have a past, present, or future tense. Instead, it has an Imperfective aspect and perfective aspect as indicators of time, with no actual determined time. Perfective aspect is something that is completed, or will be definitely completed. Imperfect is something that has not been completed, might be completed or might be completed in the future (there is no definite). Ehyeh is in the imperfective aspect, and can be understood as God saying that he is "in the process of being", a reference saying that his work is not yet complete, and may never be complete. [edit] Catholic Church interpretation The Catholic Church's interpretation has been summarized in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a product of five centuries of theology and teaching since the last Catechism of Council of Trent in the 16th Century. The interpretation is found in numbers 203-213. Some of the salient points are the following: 203 God revealed himself to his people Israel by making his name known to them. A name expresses a person's essence and identity and the meaning of this person's life. God has a name; he is not an anonymous force. To disclose one's name is to make oneself known to others; in a way it is to hand oneself over by becoming accessible, capable of being known more intimately and addressed personally. 206 In revealing his mysterious name, YHWH ("I AM HE WHO IS", "I AM WHO AM" or "I AM WHO I AM"), God says who he is and by what name he is to be called. This divine name is mysterious just as God is mystery. It is at once a name revealed and something like the refusal of a name, and hence it better expresses God as what he is - infinitely above everything that we can understand or say: he is the "hidden God", his name is ineffable, and he is the God who makes himself close to men. 207 God, who reveals his name as "I AM", reveals himself as the God who is always there, present to his people in order to save them. [edit] "A God merciful and gracious" 210 After Israel's sin, when the people had turned away from God to worship the golden calf, God hears Moses' prayer of intercession and agrees to walk in the midst of an unfaithful people, thus demonstrating his love. When Moses asks to see his glory, God responds "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim before you my name 'the LORD' [YHWH]." Then the LORD passes before Moses and proclaims, "YHWH, YHWH, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness"; Moses then confesses that the LORD is a forgiving God. 211 The divine name, "I Am" or "He Is", expresses God's faithfulness: despite the faithlessness of men's sin and the punishment it deserves, he keeps "steadfast love for thousands"... By giving his life to free us from sin, Jesus reveals that he himself bears the divine name: "When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will realize that "I AM"." 212 In God "there is no variation or shadow due to change." 213 The revelation of the ineffable name "I AM WHO AM" contains then the truth that God alone IS. The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, and following it the Church's Tradition, understood the divine name in this sense: God is the fullness of Being and of every perfection, without origin and without end. All creatures receive all that they are and have from him; but he alone is his very being, and he is of himself everything that he is. [edit] Kabbalist interpretation Kabbalists have long deemed that the Torah contains esoteric information. The response given by God is considered significant by many Kabbalists, because it is seen as proof in the divine nature of God's name, a central idea in Kabbalah (and to a lesser degree Judaism in general). One Kabbalist interpretation is that the response given to Moses means "I am my name", perhaps signifying that the power of God may actually be in his very name. [edit] Other views Some religious groups believe that this phrase or at least the "I am" part of the phrase is an actual name of God, or to lesser degree the sole name of God. It can be found in many lists where other common names of God are shown. [edit] Assyrians (aramaic speaking minority) interpretation of the phrase Aramaic and hebrew coexisted for centuries in the middle east and there was a lot of mixing and word exchange between aramaic and hebrew speaking people. In aramaic "asher" comes from "asharo", which means "the beginning" or "the start." The word Ehyeh in aramaic means "I am," just as in Hebrew. So for God to say "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" this would mean "I am the beginning I am." [edit]
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Post by Perplexed on Jul 8, 2006 8:58:33 GMT
Loved all of that, Lucy.
A couple of things I would like to mention. It could be that the" I am that I am", or, "I will be who I wil be", etc, refers to a specific Egyptian god.
I have read, that the Egyptians had a great god they worshipped whom they called the "I AM", or the great I AM. In other words, they had a widespread tradition of worshipping one god among others who's name attributted him with grat self-determinability. They were already using the name in religious parlance. I also heard that the I AM god was revered very very highly by the Egyptians.
That name carried great solemn weight.
The Pharoah prayed to the "I AM" god, and sought support and help from him in matters of state and warfare. He was, I have read, no doubt himself already praying at night, "Dear I AM, please give me the victory over all my enemies and let me keep Egypt united and under my rule, etc...."
Moses had trained in Egyptian seats of learning; he knew all the Egyptian magic, religion, traditions. In fact, I would guess that, until he was around 40 or so, he was not actively worshiping like a Hebrew, but quite a well educated leader of the land of Mithraim. (Egypt).
He comits a murder and flees for his life to Midian. this is where he becomes a servant of Yahweh, or the Lord, or "ehyeh asher ehyeh".
Anyway, he knows from first hand experience what he is up against.
"Lord, sir, how can I go back to Pharoah and get freedom for the Israelites? How am I supposed to convince him that I speak as one with authority" (I paraphrase the situation.......
Moses is timid cause he knows that facing off with Pharoah this way means death or prison.
God answers Moses---"You tell him him that I am "that" I AM. It's me. I am the one he thinks he is praying to." It's a statement of who's who.
i.e., without punctuation, it's hard to see it. I know that the punctuation is not in the original text. I will seek support for this. I have encountered support for it both online and in one sermon in church, and on the radio.
You tell him that I myself am that god that he is calling "I AM." He prays to me every night. But I have chosen to talk through you, and my people, Israel.
Now, I think your assessments are correct, more correct. I think they are all correct.
He was also, "in (the) beginning", B'Resh*th, the first fruits, the terraformer, the Creator, the initiator of our present world.
So, "In Begininng" is a who, possibly, and from what you said about asher, that phrase may pint back to this.
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Post by Perplexed on Jul 8, 2006 10:03:20 GMT
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Ludwig
Contributor
"It's all in the mind."
Posts: 101
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Post by Ludwig on Jul 8, 2006 14:24:57 GMT
Interesting!
From:http://www.eskimo.com/~bpentium/capitol.html
Factories
Capitol has had several factories over the years. Two were in operation at the time when the Beatles began their career. These were Los Angeles, CA (the original and main office) and Scranton, PA. LA's factory symbol is a * (asterisk). The LA plant closed down during the 1980's.
......\ | / .......\ | / ....---- ---- ......./ | \ ..... / | \ Scranton's factory symbol was a triangle in which I A M was written. Scranton used its 1950's style stampers on 1st pressings of the Early Beatles. A nostalgia thing? Scranton was phased out when the Winchester factory was opened (see below). Indeed, by mid '69, they had stopped pressing reissue Beatles records, although they did press copies of the new issues. For this reason, the Capitol albums pressed at Scranton from MMT back only appear on the rainbow label; there are no later issue Scranton copies. Scranton stopped making records altogether and closed down c.1973. The newest Beatles-related record I have from Scranton is a copy of Paul's "Hi Hi Hi" single.
......./ \ ....../ I \ .... / A M \ ....---------- In 1965, largely due to the Beatles' popularity, Capitol added a third factory at Jacksonville, IL. At first they used no factory symbol, but later used a 0 (looks like a zero or O).
--- / \ | | | | \ / --- In late 1969, Capitol opened a factory in Winchester, VA. This factory seems to have made thinner records than the others did. [Scranton was noted for its "thicker" records which used more vinyl.] At about this time, Capitol decided to phase out the use of the Scranton factory. Winchester's symbol looks like a tipped over wine glass.
......../| ___ / | .......\ | ........\| As far as I know, the Scranton plant never made tapes, although tapes in the various formats were made at each of the other 3 plants.
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Ludwig
Contributor
"It's all in the mind."
Posts: 101
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Post by Ludwig on Jul 8, 2006 17:43:37 GMT
A person at another forum had this to say about the IAM symbol. "That's the symbol of the Fourteenth Degree or 'Perfect Elu' four in Scottish Rite Freemasonry. the Letter Yod (or as you have anglicized, the 'I Am') symbolizes the Holy Tetragrammaton, and the Letter Delta, which surrounds it, symbolizes the Trinitarian aspect of Deity and Man." Non-anglicized?
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Post by Perplexed on Jul 8, 2006 17:47:21 GMT
A person at another forum had this to say about the IAM symbol. "That's the symbol of the Fourteenth Degree or 'Perfect Elu' four in Scottish Rite Freemasonry. the Letter Yod (or as you have anglicized, the 'I Am') symbolizes the Holy Tetragrammaton, and the Letter Delta, which surrounds it, symbolizes the Trinitarian aspect of Deity and Man." Non-anglicized? wow, ok that's new to me, the letter within the triangle so much to be mined from a short sequence of text
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Post by TotalInformation on Jul 8, 2006 19:14:01 GMT
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jul 8, 2006 21:33:33 GMT
Hmmm. You don't suppose there's a Masonic connection do you? [glow=blue,2,300]JoJo,[/glow] Want to sell that record? scranton.craigslist.org/wan/?displayMode=printFriendly"Capitol Records -- Wed Jun 21 email: anon-173821140@craigslist.org Looking for any unusual items that may have come from the Capitol records plant. Test pressings stampers acetates in-house etc. Sealed or really clean records too. Top dollar paid." On 7/3/06 Unrepentent wrote: "i've always wondered if there were any CAPITOL inner sleeves showing the butcher cover among all the other featured albums..... " meltingpot.fortunecity.com/kirkland/266/btls/inner2.htm#It appears unlikely. An explanation of the many early Beatle labels can be found here: www.dustbury.com/vent/vent330.html" Brian Epstein, the Beatles' manager, made a trip to New York in 1963, and accomplished two things: he persuaded Capitol to take the next single, and he arranged for the band to make two appearances on The Ed Sullivan Show..... Capitol assigned catalog number 5112 (almost midway between Al Martino's "I Love You More and More Every Day" and the Beach Boys' "Fun, Fun, Fun") to their new Beatles record, had set a mid-January release date and, expecting maybe a Top 20 hit at best, had ordered 200,000 copies from their Scranton pressing plant. And on the 17th of December, James Carroll, doing his regular DJ gig at WWDC in Washington, gave a spin to a single his flight-attendant girlfriend had picked up in England. The phone calls started coming in, and the record was put into heavy (as in once per hour) rotation. Word of this got back to Capitol, who were wondering how come something they hadn't released yet was getting airplay, and by the time they'd figured it out, the record (perhaps via tape or acetate) was being heard in Chicago and St. Louis. Suddenly it looked a lot bigger than Top 20. And this being late December, the pressing plant was closed for the holidays. In desperation, Capitol waved around a lot of overtime money, not only to its own people in Scranton but to Columbia and RCA Victor plants in New Jersey, and the initial order ballooned to one million copies. That single, of course, was "I Want to Hold Your Hand", and Beatlemania in America took hold once it hit."
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jul 8, 2006 22:39:14 GMT
www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/bsnpubs/vpost?id=87267&trail=60"The 'IAM' in a triangle was the logo of the International Association of Machinists' union whose members worked at the Scranton plant - which started winding down pressing of Capitol and subsidiary labels in 1971-72..." (I'm a freakin' genius! And modest too. ) "In the 'dead wax' space near the record label will be a symbol. Winchester used a triangle with a stem poking out of it. It's meant to resemble a Winchester Rifle. Kinda looks like this: >-- " (end)
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Post by beatled on Jul 8, 2006 23:10:28 GMT
That's rather strange actually.. and no way would I sell it, even if it is far more common than I tend to believe. Btw, I do have another mono and a stereo version, both first pressings, and no green glow..
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Post by Perplexed on Jul 9, 2006 0:46:34 GMT
www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/bsnpubs/vpost?id=87267&trail=60"The 'IAM' in a triangle was the logo of the International Association of Machinists' union whose members worked at the Scranton plant - which started winding down pressing of Capitol and subsidiary labels in 1971-72..." (I'm a freakin' genius! And modest too. ) "In the 'dead wax' space near the record label will be a symbol. Winchester used a triangle with a stem poking out of it. It's meant to resemble a Winchester Riffle. Kinda looks like this: >-- " (end) You are. Go to hell. lol, no, not really. Can I be jealous for just a few minutes?
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Post by byrdsmaniac on Jul 9, 2006 1:23:44 GMT
I can't think of an appropriate response! Sure, be my guest?
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Post by LUCY on Jul 9, 2006 1:26:21 GMT
I can't think of an appropriate response! Sure, be my guest? me guest. me say " " The album was released on June 1, 1967 in the United Kingdom and on June 2, 1967 in the United States. so much for......... thanks everyone.........there's more here. I smell it!
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Post by Perplexed on Jul 9, 2006 1:31:10 GMT
I can't think of an appropriate response! Sure, be my guest? I only lash out at displays of superior reasoning; don't mind me it's only a knee-jerk reaction. And, I only meant a "symbolic" hell anyway, where the fires of my jealousy doth consume thy cyber-soul and the cyber worm-hole dieth not. And you are instantly restored. (byrds thinks, "OK, doc, anything you say. Think whatever you want. Woahhhhh, creepy.........") Now I'm OK. It's just how I "reset" my circuits.
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